1 00:00:03,350 --> 00:00:02,790 let's everybody think of one incident 2 00:00:06,070 --> 00:00:03,360 where 3 00:00:06,630 --> 00:00:06,080 katniss everdeen genuinely moved you 4 00:00:08,230 --> 00:00:06,640 when she 5 00:00:09,750 --> 00:00:08,240 volunteered for her sister at the 6 00:00:13,270 --> 00:00:09,760 reaping 7 00:00:15,749 --> 00:00:13,280 excellent example good 8 00:00:17,349 --> 00:00:15,759 what else oh when she sang that song for 9 00:00:19,670 --> 00:00:17,359 little roo 10 00:00:20,550 --> 00:00:19,680 oh yeah we didn't get choked up at that 11 00:00:22,390 --> 00:00:20,560 mm-hmm 12 00:00:24,390 --> 00:00:22,400 you know i like you better effie without 13 00:00:26,230 --> 00:00:24,400 all that makeup oh i like you better 14 00:00:27,990 --> 00:00:26,240 sober 15 00:00:30,230 --> 00:00:28,000 that's of course woody harrelson from 16 00:00:31,349 --> 00:00:30,240 the hunger games a clip that would seem 17 00:00:33,430 --> 00:00:31,359 to be because it is 18 00:00:34,790 --> 00:00:33,440 a long way around the barn from an 19 00:00:36,630 --> 00:00:34,800 interview with one of the world's 20 00:00:37,750 --> 00:00:36,640 leading near-death experience 21 00:00:40,229 --> 00:00:37,760 researchers 22 00:00:40,950 --> 00:00:40,239 dr jeff long who's compiled the largest 23 00:00:43,750 --> 00:00:40,960 searchable 24 00:00:43,990 --> 00:00:43,760 database of near-death experiences and 25 00:00:46,150 --> 00:00:44,000 who 26 00:00:47,990 --> 00:00:46,160 joined me primarily because i wanted to 27 00:00:48,709 --> 00:00:48,000 verify because i reference it so many 28 00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:48,719 times 29 00:00:53,110 --> 00:00:51,600 the quality of the data in the database 30 00:00:55,670 --> 00:00:53,120 here's a short clip 31 00:00:56,389 --> 00:00:55,680 are you in any way scrubbing the 32 00:00:58,950 --> 00:00:56,399 database 33 00:01:00,869 --> 00:00:58,960 are you in any way taking out any 34 00:01:03,430 --> 00:01:00,879 references that might be 35 00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:03,440 offensive to someone you know if it's if 36 00:01:06,070 --> 00:01:05,280 they're satanic you know or this and 37 00:01:09,149 --> 00:01:06,080 that or 38 00:01:10,710 --> 00:01:09,159 i i don't think so because i even do 39 00:01:14,550 --> 00:01:10,720 nderf 40 00:01:17,109 --> 00:01:14,560 aliens i do n-d-e-r-f-e-t 41 00:01:18,149 --> 00:01:17,119 there are a few entries that come up it 42 00:01:19,670 --> 00:01:18,159 doesn't seem to me 43 00:01:21,429 --> 00:01:19,680 like you're in there scrubbing the 44 00:01:23,590 --> 00:01:21,439 database in this kind of 45 00:01:26,550 --> 00:01:23,600 cancel culture shadow banning you know 46 00:01:29,590 --> 00:01:26,560 we don't know what's really out there 47 00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:29,600 great question alex the only change that 48 00:01:32,789 --> 00:01:31,600 we make to the entirety of what is 49 00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:32,799 shared with us 50 00:01:37,030 --> 00:01:35,280 is we remove references i mean they may 51 00:01:38,870 --> 00:01:37,040 just like their doctor that they believe 52 00:01:39,510 --> 00:01:38,880 was involved in their life-threatening 53 00:01:41,590 --> 00:01:39,520 event 54 00:01:43,830 --> 00:01:41,600 so we remove names just to preserve 55 00:01:46,870 --> 00:01:43,840 confidentiality our overriding concern 56 00:01:47,270 --> 00:01:46,880 is the confidentiality of who shares we 57 00:01:49,270 --> 00:01:47,280 post 58 00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:49,280 everything that they share with us it 59 00:01:52,310 --> 00:01:52,000 would be an abomination to us to pull 60 00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:52,320 out 61 00:01:55,429 --> 00:01:54,240 anything that we didn't like or we 62 00:01:58,870 --> 00:01:55,439 disagreed with 63 00:02:00,709 --> 00:01:58,880 if they share it with us it goes up 64 00:02:03,270 --> 00:02:00,719 now i realize that this point which 65 00:02:05,190 --> 00:02:03,280 seems so so so important to me 66 00:02:06,389 --> 00:02:05,200 is really not that important to most 67 00:02:07,670 --> 00:02:06,399 people who are interested in near-death 68 00:02:09,190 --> 00:02:07,680 experience 69 00:02:11,110 --> 00:02:09,200 what they want to hear about is all the 70 00:02:12,949 --> 00:02:11,120 goodies that come from the experience 71 00:02:15,270 --> 00:02:12,959 as well they should because there's a 72 00:02:17,190 --> 00:02:15,280 lot of goodies to hear as dr jeffrey 73 00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:17,200 long will tell you from the data he's 74 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:18,480 compiled like 75 00:02:21,990 --> 00:02:21,360 fear of death here's a clip on that i've 76 00:02:24,309 --> 00:02:22,000 pulled up the 77 00:02:25,510 --> 00:02:24,319 response to the question fear of death i 78 00:02:27,910 --> 00:02:25,520 asked them directly 79 00:02:30,509 --> 00:02:27,920 what about your fear of death before the 80 00:02:34,070 --> 00:02:30,519 experience before their nde 81 00:02:35,509 --> 00:02:34,080 32.3 greatly feared death 82 00:02:37,270 --> 00:02:35,519 at the current time when they shared 83 00:02:39,430 --> 00:02:37,280 their near-death experience 84 00:02:41,190 --> 00:02:39,440 typically years later the percentage 85 00:02:43,350 --> 00:02:41,200 that said they greatly fear death down 86 00:02:45,430 --> 00:02:43,360 to 3.1 87 00:02:47,030 --> 00:02:45,440 remarkably you go right to that key 88 00:02:48,470 --> 00:02:47,040 question the options to 89 00:02:49,990 --> 00:02:48,480 response for their level of fear of 90 00:02:51,350 --> 00:02:50,000 death as i greatly fear death and 91 00:02:53,110 --> 00:02:51,360 moderately fear death 92 00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:53,120 i slightly fear death i did not fear 93 00:02:56,550 --> 00:02:54,480 death or unknown 94 00:02:59,589 --> 00:02:56,560 so look right directly at that response 95 00:03:01,350 --> 00:02:59,599 to that question of i did not fear death 96 00:03:03,350 --> 00:03:01,360 at the time prior to their near-death 97 00:03:05,670 --> 00:03:03,360 experience 13 98 00:03:07,949 --> 00:03:05,680 did not fear death after their 99 00:03:10,630 --> 00:03:07,959 near-death experience 100 00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:10,640 76.7 percent said they did not fear 101 00:03:14,630 --> 00:03:11,440 death 102 00:03:16,550 --> 00:03:14,640 alex this is dramatic evidence of the 103 00:03:17,430 --> 00:03:16,560 power of near-death experiences to 104 00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:17,440 change lives 105 00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:20,080 yeah it is and i wonder you know i've 106 00:03:24,390 --> 00:03:21,840 had a couple of social scientists 107 00:03:25,270 --> 00:03:24,400 on the show who've done related work in 108 00:03:27,670 --> 00:03:25,280 terms of 109 00:03:29,670 --> 00:03:27,680 how people change from going through a 110 00:03:30,229 --> 00:03:29,680 six-week meditation course and something 111 00:03:32,550 --> 00:03:30,239 like that 112 00:03:34,630 --> 00:03:32,560 and the only thing i just add is that if 113 00:03:37,030 --> 00:03:34,640 you ever looked into the social science 114 00:03:39,350 --> 00:03:37,040 part of this a social scientist would 115 00:03:42,229 --> 00:03:39,360 just throw up their arms and go 116 00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:42,239 that is crazy i mean fundamental belief 117 00:03:46,789 --> 00:03:43,280 systems like that 118 00:03:49,750 --> 00:03:46,799 switching from 30 to 3 we 119 00:03:51,589 --> 00:03:49,760 there's no precedent for that in the 120 00:03:54,789 --> 00:03:51,599 social sciences of how 121 00:03:55,830 --> 00:03:54,799 that kind of change can happen on the 122 00:03:58,070 --> 00:03:55,840 other hand and the reason 123 00:04:00,550 --> 00:03:58,080 i keep coming back to the data is for 124 00:04:02,949 --> 00:04:00,560 certain kinds of people like me 125 00:04:04,390 --> 00:04:02,959 like a lot of you and apparently like dr 126 00:04:07,429 --> 00:04:04,400 jeff long 127 00:04:10,149 --> 00:04:07,439 the data is important because the data 128 00:04:10,789 --> 00:04:10,159 can actually be part of the spiritual 129 00:04:13,429 --> 00:04:10,799 growth 130 00:04:14,390 --> 00:04:13,439 if you will here's how he explains it i 131 00:04:15,910 --> 00:04:14,400 think 132 00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:15,920 people that have done near-death 133 00:04:20,310 --> 00:04:18,400 experience like me have sort of had that 134 00:04:21,590 --> 00:04:20,320 time when they really did it it sinks in 135 00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:21,600 you go wow 136 00:04:25,510 --> 00:04:24,000 this is uh what some yendi ears i think 137 00:04:28,230 --> 00:04:25,520 very aptly say 138 00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:28,240 the boot camp of our spiritual existence 139 00:04:30,950 --> 00:04:30,000 that afterlife you know where you don't 140 00:04:33,830 --> 00:04:30,960 have that pain 141 00:04:34,950 --> 00:04:33,840 misery and the stuff that we have here 142 00:04:37,030 --> 00:04:34,960 in our earthly life 143 00:04:38,629 --> 00:04:37,040 is our real home as they say over and 144 00:04:41,110 --> 00:04:38,639 over by the hundreds 145 00:04:42,790 --> 00:04:41,120 and so there i think there comes a time 146 00:04:44,710 --> 00:04:42,800 in in many near-death experience 147 00:04:45,990 --> 00:04:44,720 researchers where you just go wow i'm 148 00:04:48,310 --> 00:04:46,000 not 149 00:04:49,189 --> 00:04:48,320 you sought to learn about them but look 150 00:04:51,670 --> 00:04:49,199 what you learned 151 00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:51,680 we're not really home that there's a 152 00:04:55,830 --> 00:04:52,720 vastly better 153 00:04:57,430 --> 00:04:55,840 existence realm of being than our 154 00:04:59,350 --> 00:04:57,440 everyday earthly life 155 00:05:01,909 --> 00:04:59,360 where these miseries and stuff that we 156 00:05:04,870 --> 00:05:01,919 have to put up every day don't exist 157 00:05:06,870 --> 00:05:04,880 our life on earth is not an accident uh 158 00:05:09,430 --> 00:05:06,880 you know we it we're here to 159 00:05:09,990 --> 00:05:09,440 to learn we're here to to live our life 160 00:05:12,469 --> 00:05:10,000 to the best 161 00:05:13,590 --> 00:05:12,479 way that we can and there's meaning and 162 00:05:15,110 --> 00:05:13,600 purpose to it 163 00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:15,120 meaning and purpose more than i would 164 00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:16,880 have ever guessed before i started my 165 00:05:21,110 --> 00:05:18,800 near-death experience research 166 00:05:23,510 --> 00:05:21,120 so i think all of that broad 167 00:05:25,830 --> 00:05:23,520 understanding of near-death experience 168 00:05:27,029 --> 00:05:25,840 plus the motivation that the near-death 169 00:05:29,749 --> 00:05:27,039 experiencers 170 00:05:32,070 --> 00:05:29,759 state over and over this is literally an 171 00:05:33,990 --> 00:05:32,080 act of love to go through your life and 172 00:05:35,590 --> 00:05:34,000 reach out to others as lovingly as 173 00:05:37,590 --> 00:05:35,600 possible as i just said 174 00:05:39,110 --> 00:05:37,600 number two word used in describing near 175 00:05:41,110 --> 00:05:39,120 death experience is love 176 00:05:43,029 --> 00:05:41,120 so it sort of gives you that that 177 00:05:44,550 --> 00:05:43,039 motivation that understanding that even 178 00:05:46,070 --> 00:05:44,560 though this is the boot camp of our 179 00:05:48,550 --> 00:05:46,080 spiritual existence 180 00:05:50,629 --> 00:05:48,560 uh it's important and and in some ways a 181 00:05:53,909 --> 00:05:50,639 gift and we just do the best we can with 182 00:05:56,950 --> 00:05:55,990 okay but back to the clip back to woody 183 00:05:58,950 --> 00:05:56,960 harrelson 184 00:06:00,469 --> 00:05:58,960 back to the hunger games what they're 185 00:06:02,950 --> 00:06:00,479 actually doing in that scene 186 00:06:04,710 --> 00:06:02,960 is they're devising a campaign to 187 00:06:05,270 --> 00:06:04,720 counter the social engineering that's 188 00:06:07,510 --> 00:06:05,280 going on 189 00:06:09,350 --> 00:06:07,520 inside of their society and this is kind 190 00:06:10,070 --> 00:06:09,360 of a reoccurring theme that you've heard 191 00:06:11,749 --> 00:06:10,080 on skeptico 192 00:06:13,110 --> 00:06:11,759 and you know i've brought this up over 193 00:06:15,189 --> 00:06:13,120 and over again with some of the top 194 00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:15,199 near-death experience researchers and 195 00:06:20,150 --> 00:06:17,840 they're very very reluctant to go there 196 00:06:21,110 --> 00:06:20,160 and i think as i keep repeating over and 197 00:06:23,830 --> 00:06:21,120 over again 198 00:06:24,950 --> 00:06:23,840 it's a mistake to not go there it's a 199 00:06:27,510 --> 00:06:24,960 mistake to not 200 00:06:29,189 --> 00:06:27,520 realize the extent to which culture is 201 00:06:31,029 --> 00:06:29,199 playing a game with that 202 00:06:32,230 --> 00:06:31,039 so in this interview coming up with a 203 00:06:34,629 --> 00:06:32,240 very excellent dr 204 00:06:36,590 --> 00:06:34,639 jeffrey long i make a passing reference 205 00:06:39,110 --> 00:06:36,600 to the deliberate 206 00:06:41,029 --> 00:06:39,120 misinformation campaign against 207 00:06:44,230 --> 00:06:41,039 near-death experience science i 208 00:06:46,230 --> 00:06:44,240 know that sounds far-fetched but i came 209 00:06:48,469 --> 00:06:46,240 up with a classic example and and it's 210 00:06:49,350 --> 00:06:48,479 a wonderful example really because this 211 00:06:51,670 --> 00:06:49,360 guy is 212 00:06:53,589 --> 00:06:51,680 really pretty nice guy i guess he's 213 00:06:56,629 --> 00:06:53,599 reached out to me a couple times 214 00:06:58,230 --> 00:06:56,639 he's been on the show i think in some 215 00:06:59,510 --> 00:06:58,240 way in some strange way he kind of 216 00:07:03,510 --> 00:06:59,520 believes 217 00:07:04,790 --> 00:07:03,520 in what he's doing but it's just kind of 218 00:07:06,150 --> 00:07:04,800 a great example of what i'm talking 219 00:07:07,350 --> 00:07:06,160 about it's a university of california 220 00:07:10,230 --> 00:07:07,360 riverside professor 221 00:07:11,270 --> 00:07:10,240 named dr john martin fisher and he's 222 00:07:13,110 --> 00:07:11,280 written about 223 00:07:14,870 --> 00:07:13,120 his new interpretation of near-death 224 00:07:16,469 --> 00:07:14,880 experiences and the reason i always 225 00:07:18,790 --> 00:07:16,479 bring up john is because 226 00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:18,800 john got this relatively huge grant from 227 00:07:23,350 --> 00:07:20,400 the templeton foundation 228 00:07:24,950 --> 00:07:23,360 which is very very sus in that it was a 229 00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:24,960 foundation that was started by this 230 00:07:28,230 --> 00:07:26,080 really really rich 231 00:07:30,070 --> 00:07:28,240 investor guy templeton who was super 232 00:07:32,469 --> 00:07:30,080 interested in spirituality 233 00:07:33,909 --> 00:07:32,479 and religion and was very religious 234 00:07:35,430 --> 00:07:33,919 himself and very spiritual 235 00:07:37,270 --> 00:07:35,440 and wanted to understand the interface 236 00:07:38,950 --> 00:07:37,280 between science and religion and then 237 00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:38,960 these guys somehow like they always do 238 00:07:42,469 --> 00:07:40,400 they managed to co-opt it 239 00:07:44,469 --> 00:07:42,479 and now you have somebody like john 240 00:07:44,950 --> 00:07:44,479 fisher who's an atheist who somehow 241 00:07:47,830 --> 00:07:44,960 gains 242 00:07:48,390 --> 00:07:47,840 access to this foundation is able to get 243 00:07:50,550 --> 00:07:48,400 funding 244 00:07:52,710 --> 00:07:50,560 to do research that does kind of the 245 00:07:54,629 --> 00:07:52,720 exact opposite which would kind of turn 246 00:07:56,469 --> 00:07:54,639 john templeton over in his grave he's 247 00:07:57,990 --> 00:07:56,479 essentially out there trying to debunk 248 00:07:59,189 --> 00:07:58,000 near-death experience and you can go 249 00:08:00,869 --> 00:07:59,199 listen to the interview it's been on the 250 00:08:03,749 --> 00:08:00,879 show it's it's it's just 251 00:08:05,270 --> 00:08:03,759 almost embarrassing in how lame his 252 00:08:06,629 --> 00:08:05,280 arguments are but especially when you 253 00:08:08,550 --> 00:08:06,639 compare it to somebody like 254 00:08:10,309 --> 00:08:08,560 dr jeff long who can pull up so much 255 00:08:11,990 --> 00:08:10,319 data and report data 256 00:08:13,430 --> 00:08:12,000 again you know john fisher has never 257 00:08:15,670 --> 00:08:13,440 talked to a near-death experience 258 00:08:16,950 --> 00:08:15,680 researcher it isn't part of his research 259 00:08:18,309 --> 00:08:16,960 to actually study 260 00:08:20,070 --> 00:08:18,319 the people who've had the experience 261 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:20,080 it's bizarre but here's what i want to 262 00:08:23,430 --> 00:08:21,120 draw your attention to 263 00:08:24,950 --> 00:08:23,440 you can go to youtube right now and type 264 00:08:26,950 --> 00:08:24,960 in near-death experience 265 00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:26,960 new interpretation or near-death 266 00:08:29,830 --> 00:08:28,400 experience john fisher 267 00:08:31,110 --> 00:08:29,840 or a skeptic i don't know you could 268 00:08:31,510 --> 00:08:31,120 probably get to it a number of different 269 00:08:33,589 --> 00:08:31,520 ways 270 00:08:35,589 --> 00:08:33,599 because youtube is unbelievably hyping 271 00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:35,599 this interview this interview this 272 00:08:38,949 --> 00:08:36,560 youtube video 273 00:08:40,310 --> 00:08:38,959 if you were to believe it has 1.4 274 00:08:43,750 --> 00:08:40,320 million views 275 00:08:47,030 --> 00:08:43,760 on youtube that's fake it's 276 00:08:50,150 --> 00:08:47,040 just fake go go 277 00:08:51,190 --> 00:08:50,160 there and scroll down it read the 278 00:08:54,070 --> 00:08:51,200 comments 279 00:08:55,030 --> 00:08:54,080 i scrolled through i'm not exaggerating 280 00:08:58,070 --> 00:08:55,040 i've flipped through 281 00:08:58,630 --> 00:08:58,080 10 pages of comments i could not find 282 00:09:01,350 --> 00:08:58,640 one 283 00:09:02,389 --> 00:09:01,360 positive comment i it just i'll read 284 00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:02,399 right from the top 285 00:09:06,389 --> 00:09:05,040 i like how he mumbles as he reads what 286 00:09:08,870 --> 00:09:06,399 is outside his bias 287 00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:08,880 while raising his voice within his bias 288 00:09:11,829 --> 00:09:09,760 here's another one 289 00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:11,839 he sounds like a barber pontificating 290 00:09:16,470 --> 00:09:13,360 about neurosurgery 291 00:09:18,790 --> 00:09:16,480 he's a sincere flatlander next 292 00:09:20,630 --> 00:09:18,800 he hasn't had an nd he's like a food 293 00:09:22,230 --> 00:09:20,640 critic who's read the menu without 294 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:22,240 tasting any of the dishes 295 00:09:25,590 --> 00:09:24,240 can you imagine listening to this guy 296 00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:25,600 whilst driving 297 00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:27,120 finally and then i'll let it go it's 298 00:09:30,949 --> 00:09:29,040 like someone who's never visited paris 299 00:09:32,550 --> 00:09:30,959 trying to convince us that he knows more 300 00:09:34,389 --> 00:09:32,560 about paris than others who've been 301 00:09:37,670 --> 00:09:34,399 there 302 00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:37,680 folks i'm not cherry-picking go read the 303 00:09:42,710 --> 00:09:38,800 comments 304 00:09:43,430 --> 00:09:42,720 there is no way on earth 1.4 million 305 00:09:46,949 --> 00:09:43,440 people 306 00:09:49,030 --> 00:09:46,959 listen to this or watch this video 307 00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:49,040 go compare it with all the interviews 308 00:09:52,550 --> 00:09:50,560 that have been done with dr jeff 309 00:09:53,990 --> 00:09:52,560 long he's got he's very successful he 310 00:09:55,190 --> 00:09:54,000 gets a lot of place he doesn't get 311 00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,200 anywhere near this 312 00:09:59,110 --> 00:09:57,360 i don't know how it's faked i don't know 313 00:10:02,790 --> 00:09:59,120 exactly why it's faked 314 00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:02,800 but it's fake it's just not real 315 00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:04,880 and it's in some way i don't totally 316 00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:06,160 understand 317 00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:07,760 part of the culture war part of the 318 00:10:11,509 --> 00:10:10,000 mission to discredit and distract you 319 00:10:13,269 --> 00:10:11,519 from this science 320 00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:13,279 but you know when i put all this to dr 321 00:10:18,389 --> 00:10:15,200 long he had what i think is a very 322 00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:18,399 wise response and that is that you know 323 00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:21,519 the truth kind of wins out in the end 324 00:10:26,389 --> 00:10:23,519 people see through this people figure it 325 00:10:29,269 --> 00:10:26,399 out let's hope that's the case 326 00:10:31,269 --> 00:10:29,279 here's my interview with dr jeffrey long 327 00:10:33,910 --> 00:10:31,279 welcome to skeptico where we explore 328 00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:33,920 controversial science and spirituality 329 00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:36,240 with leading researchers thinkers and 330 00:10:42,069 --> 00:10:38,560 their critics i'm your host alex sacaris 331 00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:42,079 and today i am so excited to welcome 332 00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:42,560 back 333 00:10:46,069 --> 00:10:44,560 jeff long to skeptico you know we're 334 00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:46,079 just chatting him in to go before i hit 335 00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:46,880 record 336 00:10:50,069 --> 00:10:49,200 and i'm already fired up to talk to this 337 00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:50,079 guy 338 00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:53,200 jeff is one of the most respected and i 339 00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:53,760 would say 340 00:10:57,110 --> 00:10:55,040 and i'm going to tell you why in a 341 00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:57,120 minute i think one of the most 342 00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:59,040 important near-death experience 343 00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:00,800 researchers we have 344 00:11:05,590 --> 00:11:03,839 he's a medical doctor as well as a 345 00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,600 medical scientist 346 00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:07,279 and we're going to get into the 347 00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:09,920 difference there but he is truly both 348 00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:12,399 he's the author of the new york times 349 00:11:15,670 --> 00:11:13,680 best-selling book 350 00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:15,680 evidence of the afterlife from a few 351 00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:18,320 years ago and author of another very 352 00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:20,720 popular book from a few years ago 353 00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,600 god and the afterlife which no doubt 354 00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:24,720 would have been a new york times 355 00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:26,240 bestseller but the title 356 00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:28,320 always threw people i think a little bit 357 00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:29,440 uh you know 358 00:11:33,509 --> 00:11:32,800 jeff is not a preachy kind of sermon guy 359 00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:33,519 he just 360 00:11:37,269 --> 00:11:35,440 kind of reports the data but when you 361 00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:37,279 report the data and the data has the 362 00:11:41,670 --> 00:11:39,680 word god in it sometimes that throws 363 00:11:43,750 --> 00:11:41,680 people and here's what i already tipped 364 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:43,760 my hand to jeff what i really am 365 00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:46,800 hoping we can focus on is that 366 00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:50,560 jeff along with his wife jody who is 367 00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:53,600 you know an accomplished attorney author 368 00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:56,240 you know very smart person are the 369 00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,120 creators 370 00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:00,240 and maintainers of 371 00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:04,160 a fabulous website at nderf.org 372 00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:08,800 a website of near-death experiences 373 00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:12,240 how many are there at this point jeff 374 00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:14,240 right we have over three thousand five 375 00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:16,320 hundred near death experiences posted on 376 00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:18,000 the indir website 377 00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:20,320 and literally uh in our family of 378 00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:22,480 websites thousands of more experiences 379 00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:24,160 so this is by far 380 00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:25,839 the largest publicly accessible 381 00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:27,600 collection of near-death experiences in 382 00:12:30,949 --> 00:12:29,120 the world 383 00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,959 and you know what i always tell people 384 00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:32,800 because i mean you 385 00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:35,680 are a medical physician and you have 386 00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,560 reviewed 387 00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:38,480 i mean you're i want to right from the 388 00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:40,240 beginning i want to kind of back 389 00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:41,839 up and we're having this conversation 390 00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:43,279 you're not here to sell 391 00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:44,639 a book your books have been out for a 392 00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:46,480 couple years hope people go 393 00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:48,560 if they're at all interested in this and 394 00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:51,120 reacquaint themselves with those books 395 00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:54,079 they're available on on amazon heck for 396 00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:55,360 7.50 397 00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,200 so you can get god in the afterlife and 398 00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:01,519 evidence of the afterlife is up there 399 00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:02,560 too but 400 00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:06,000 like i say jeff isn't here necessarily 401 00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:09,120 to promote books or to sell books 402 00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:12,959 if you go to the nder f website 403 00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:15,760 there's no big donate button staring you 404 00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:16,480 in the face 405 00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,720 if you want to donate you can but that's 406 00:13:23,590 --> 00:13:20,320 not what this thing 407 00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:23,600 is about this is a guy who is a 408 00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:24,639 scientist 409 00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:26,959 who is a serious researcher in addition 410 00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:28,800 to a medical doctor 411 00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,760 who has done some incredibly important 412 00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:33,120 work 413 00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:36,320 in compiling a database why is it that 414 00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:37,600 people can rely on this 415 00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:40,399 database of near-death experiences good 416 00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:41,519 question alex 417 00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:43,839 in recent years many studies have been 418 00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:45,760 published in scholarly journals 419 00:13:49,269 --> 00:13:47,680 that compared the so-called traditional 420 00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:49,279 pencil and paper surveys 421 00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:51,839 do in person with internet-based surveys 422 00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:53,920 and they found to be equally reliable so 423 00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:55,360 we have that confidence 424 00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:57,440 but above and beyond that for our 425 00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:58,399 database 426 00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,880 and the experience was shared with it we 427 00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:02,079 asked like at this time 428 00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:04,240 over 80 different questions it takes a 429 00:14:06,629 --> 00:14:06,160 huge amount of time for people to fill 430 00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:06,639 all that 431 00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:09,440 out and people just essentially never do 432 00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:10,160 that 433 00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:12,560 just on a whim or as a joke moreover 434 00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:13,279 they're always 435 00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:15,360 essentially always posted anonymously 436 00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:17,839 unless we have very specific permission 437 00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:19,360 so it's not like they're going to gain 438 00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:20,959 any recognition by having their 439 00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:23,519 experience posted on the indir website 440 00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:25,839 and then finally we have over at this 441 00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:28,320 time over 50 000 unique visitors every 442 00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:29,120 month alex 443 00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:31,040 to the website and so if there's 444 00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:32,720 anything that's fraudulent copied from 445 00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:33,760 somewhere else 446 00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:36,399 we pretty much expect to hear it 447 00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,600 medically i can 448 00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,920 tell the plausibility about descriptions 449 00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:41,839 of medical life-threatening events 450 00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:43,920 led to the near-death experience so we 451 00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,519 go through and then on top of that 452 00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:47,839 the survey over 80 questions there's a 453 00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:48,880 number of questions 454 00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:50,880 asked in a redundant fashion slightly 455 00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:52,639 worded differently in different parts of 456 00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:53,600 the survey 457 00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:55,360 so we can compare that and see how 458 00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:57,120 serious people were doing it 459 00:15:00,790 --> 00:14:59,040 uh so that and there's even more vetting 460 00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:00,800 steps but at the end of the day 461 00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:03,440 uh we're quite confident that uh it may 462 00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:04,560 not be 100 463 00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:07,760 but it's dang sure way over 99 or not 464 00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:09,440 fraudulent in any way 465 00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:12,320 uh so we're very very careful about that 466 00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:13,760 and i think i read 467 00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:16,480 on the website that you know you have 468 00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,600 encountered that right 469 00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:19,920 i mean that does come up it's rare but 470 00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:22,000 it does happen if it never happened i'd 471 00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:23,360 almost be 472 00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:26,399 suspicious of that right okay well all 473 00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,920 right you're asking i'll tell you we had 474 00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:29,680 two separate indies in a row 475 00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:31,680 from uh that were reportedly shared by 476 00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:34,160 pamela anderson uh we quickly realized 477 00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:35,279 that there was a couple 478 00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:37,600 like the adolescents uh boys that uh 479 00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:39,199 decided that that was what they would do 480 00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:40,480 that evening so 481 00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:42,320 that's memorable because it's so rare to 482 00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:44,079 have people sending a 483 00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,560 fraudulent ndes so jeff i know you are 484 00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:50,399 you know very media savvy for people who 485 00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:51,759 don't know i mean you've done good 486 00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:53,440 morning america you've done fox news you 487 00:15:57,230 --> 00:15:54,000 can do all these 488 00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:57,240 things and here i went to the website 489 00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:00,320 nderf and you're part of a new 490 00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:02,720 documentary hidden beyond the veil 491 00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,000 looks like jody got a little airtime too 492 00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:09,360 i really liked the clip on there and one 493 00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:10,800 of the things i thought was really cool 494 00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:11,360 about it 495 00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:14,079 is i heard this story which i hadn't 496 00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,199 heard before 497 00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:17,120 about one of the first times you 498 00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:19,519 encountered a near-death experience 499 00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:22,399 as a medical professional alex that was 500 00:16:43,749 --> 00:16:23,040 a 501 00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:43,759 his uh the wife of my friend mentioned 502 00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,560 that she had 503 00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:47,040 so many allergies that were so severe 504 00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:48,639 that at one time she was having an 505 00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:49,360 operation 506 00:16:54,870 --> 00:16:52,959 under general anesthesia and she coded 507 00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:54,880 but every instinct i had in the way she 508 00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:56,720 said that it didn't sound fearful 509 00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:58,720 it sounded like there was an air of 510 00:17:03,110 --> 00:16:59,759 mystery 511 00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,120 when you say she coded that she died 512 00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:05,520 is that her heart stopped yes clinically 513 00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,400 that's death 514 00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:08,079 obviously as you know alex under general 515 00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:10,400 anesthesia they very carefully monitor 516 00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,640 vital signs especially heartbeat 517 00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:14,400 so if you have if you have a severe 518 00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:15,760 allergic reaction 519 00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:17,280 and your heart stops you know it 520 00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:19,280 immediately the ekg 521 00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:21,520 measure of electrical activity of the 522 00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:23,520 heart immediately goes into a huge 523 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:24,640 racket 524 00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:26,640 there's alarms everywhere so you know 525 00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:27,919 immediately 526 00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:31,039 so here but but getting back to my 527 00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:32,000 wife's friend 528 00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:33,120 so she said that with kind of a 529 00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:34,880 mysterious tone in her voice and there 530 00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,919 was literally about a 20 30 second pause 531 00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:40,400 for literally very possibly my whole 532 00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:41,840 future research in nd 533 00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,080 hung in the balance because i considered 534 00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:46,240 it the stupidest question i could ask as 535 00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:47,679 a doctor 536 00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:49,679 well did something happen while you're 537 00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:51,600 under general anesthesia and your heart 538 00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:52,480 stopped 539 00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:55,039 and i had to sort of get up the courage 540 00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:55,760 if you will 541 00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:57,120 before i could ask what should have been 542 00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:59,280 the dumbest question in my life 543 00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:01,200 and as soon as i said that she popped up 544 00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,559 and went why yes 545 00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:04,880 and described a dramatic near-death 546 00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:07,200 experience consciousness above the body 547 00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:09,919 that ekg measurement racket the panic in 548 00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:11,440 the operating room i mean you can just 549 00:18:15,270 --> 00:18:12,400 imagine 550 00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:15,280 uh going through a tunnel life review uh 551 00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:17,440 very detailed near-death experience but 552 00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:17,840 she 553 00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:21,120 aware of a near-death experience 554 00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:23,039 so i said geez i read about this a 555 00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:24,799 couple years ago briefly 556 00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:26,240 i think you had one of those near-death 557 00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:28,160 experience things and 558 00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:30,559 i mean it was so dramatic the concept of 559 00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:32,720 her heart stopping obviously 560 00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,440 and uh coding literally and being under 561 00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:37,200 general anesthesia 562 00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:39,600 that immediately got me to thinking if 563 00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:42,320 this happens and this is real then this 564 00:18:44,630 --> 00:18:44,080 changes my whole view of the universe 565 00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:44,640 this is 566 00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:47,600 beyond anything medically possible 567 00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,039 there's nothing i've ever had in my 568 00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,200 medical training could possibly explain 569 00:18:55,510 --> 00:18:53,600 explain that and that was the impetuous 570 00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:55,520 alex that got me started several years 571 00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:56,240 later 572 00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,880 to go to the original source of data 573 00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,400 that being those that had near-death 574 00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:02,160 experiences share it on the indirf 575 00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:03,039 website 576 00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:05,679 so that i could make up my own mind or 577 00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:07,280 with that burning question i had our 578 00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:09,039 near-death experience is real 579 00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:12,720 and wow did i ever get an answer 580 00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:15,200 that's uh that's such a great story jeff 581 00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:16,640 and i 582 00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,200 you this or heard you talk about 583 00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:23,600 it so you have the experience in med 584 00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:25,360 school and you kind of play it close to 585 00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:27,039 the vest as you have to because like you 586 00:19:30,789 --> 00:19:29,039 just said it goes against 587 00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:30,799 you know you're going off reservation 588 00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:32,559 even by asking the question 589 00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:35,280 and then you have the internal drive to 590 00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:36,160 pursue it 591 00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:38,640 but what about earlier in life was there 592 00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:40,400 ever anything 593 00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,600 early in your life that kind of hinted 594 00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:45,919 for you or gave you some 595 00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:48,320 sense of direction that these kind of 596 00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:50,000 questions would be something you would 597 00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:52,640 pursue or not maybe not 598 00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:55,039 i you know i would have to say no i 599 00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:56,720 never had a near-death experience i 600 00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,160 hadn't really 601 00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:00,480 personally had what i would call a 602 00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:02,640 significant mystical experience up until 603 00:20:05,909 --> 00:20:04,000 that time 604 00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:05,919 but i was curious i'm one of those folks 605 00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:07,840 that says let the evidence do the 606 00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:08,799 talking 607 00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:11,600 show me and that i guess i've always had 608 00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:13,039 that and certainly that guides my 609 00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,240 medical decisions and 610 00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:16,480 my radiation oncology decisions every 611 00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,600 day as i 612 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:19,440 work with my patients to fight cancer so 613 00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:22,080 i guess i've always had that mentality 614 00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:23,840 i've always been interested in in 615 00:20:28,149 --> 00:20:26,320 research and in the best methodology 616 00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:28,159 i mean shoot my father nearly won the 617 00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:29,600 nobel prize in his 618 00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:32,080 area of pharmacology many many years ago 619 00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:32,720 and he 620 00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:35,200 discovered a drug that that 621 00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:36,720 characterized the parasympathetic 622 00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,919 nervous system so 623 00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:39,600 i guess i've always been focused on 624 00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:40,960 research and the questions 625 00:20:45,110 --> 00:20:43,520 and the search uh even from childhood 626 00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:45,120 from that source so that was probably if 627 00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:46,880 anything the most informative thing i 628 00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,360 had 629 00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,600 just that burning curiosity the desire 630 00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:51,360 to know the truth in the best way 631 00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,400 possible 632 00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:54,960 you know in a lot of ways i think that 633 00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:57,440 that is what really suited you for this 634 00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,240 in a way 635 00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:00,640 because i was also in this video for 636 00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:01,360 this 637 00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,919 upcoming film which isn't out now hidden 638 00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:05,280 beyond the veil looks 639 00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:06,480 pretty interesting we might talk some 640 00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:08,240 more about that but the other 641 00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:10,159 interesting thing 642 00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:13,280 that i heard you say is that your 643 00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:16,159 study of the near-death experience 644 00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:18,080 research and science that you've been a 645 00:21:21,270 --> 00:21:19,280 big part of 646 00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:21,280 has completely removed your fear of 647 00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:23,440 death and i think 648 00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:24,880 we have to kind of put that in the 649 00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:26,559 context of how 650 00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:29,039 significant that is i mean for many many 651 00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:30,000 people this is like 652 00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:32,799 a major barrier in their life and it's 653 00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:33,280 it 654 00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:36,960 grief of when someone they lose someone 655 00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:39,120 all these things around that so when you 656 00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:41,120 combine that with the fact that 657 00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:43,919 you never had any huge significant 658 00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:44,640 spiritual 659 00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:47,440 never had a near-death experience but 660 00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:49,760 had this drive to know 661 00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:52,480 it's great to know that someone can just 662 00:21:56,470 --> 00:21:53,679 study this stuff 663 00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:56,480 like you have and through just the study 664 00:22:01,990 --> 00:21:58,159 of it intellectually 665 00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:02,000 can come to such a life-changing kind of 666 00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:05,200 belief change like that don't you think 667 00:22:11,029 --> 00:22:08,559 no question about that and alex a major 668 00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:11,039 point here is that i've had some great 669 00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:12,000 teachers in my life 670 00:22:15,669 --> 00:22:14,159 from some of the outstanding physicians 671 00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,679 that taught me medical school 672 00:22:19,430 --> 00:22:17,360 but at this point some of my life's 673 00:22:20,789 --> 00:22:19,440 greatest teachers are those that have 674 00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:20,799 near-death experiences and had the 675 00:22:25,830 --> 00:22:23,280 courage to share with me in the world 676 00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:25,840 from them i've seen beyond any shadow of 677 00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:27,679 a doubt in my opinion 678 00:22:30,789 --> 00:22:29,679 evidence that we really don't have to 679 00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:30,799 fear death that 680 00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:32,240 we're all going to survive death but 681 00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:33,919 there's an afterlife a wonderful 682 00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:36,480 afterlife and it's for all of us 683 00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:39,200 near-death experiencers dramatically as 684 00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:40,000 a group reduce 685 00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,760 their fear of death after near-death 686 00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:43,679 experience i've got data just several 687 00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,559 days 688 00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:46,559 old from crunching some numbers 689 00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:48,559 analyzing the responses to my 690 00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:51,360 most recent database in my excel 691 00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,159 spreadsheet 692 00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:54,799 and there is once again dramatic 693 00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:56,720 association of reduction of fear of 694 00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:57,360 death 695 00:23:02,710 --> 00:23:01,120 had at the time of their nde 696 00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:02,720 to the fear of death at the time they 697 00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:04,159 shared their near-death experience 698 00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:05,360 around 15 699 00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:08,240 average years later so i can't think 700 00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,320 alex of any other single event 701 00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:12,320 that you could encounter in life that 702 00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:13,760 would be so correlated with the 703 00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:15,200 reduction of fear of death as a 704 00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:17,360 near-death experience 705 00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:20,400 let's take a minute and pull up that 706 00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:21,760 stat 707 00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:25,039 because i think it'll kind of 708 00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:27,440 shoehorn us into this discussion that i 709 00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:28,720 want to have 710 00:23:33,750 --> 00:23:31,440 about the data because one of the 711 00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:33,760 questions i had is 712 00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:36,240 can we still rely on the data is the 713 00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:37,360 data being 714 00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:40,559 is the integrity of the database intact 715 00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:43,200 because i think it's very very important 716 00:23:46,789 --> 00:23:44,880 what we can do with that database in 717 00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,799 terms of the searchability of it 718 00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:48,960 in terms of the research potential of it 719 00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:51,200 which i think is largely untapped 720 00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:53,200 do you have that at your fingertips what 721 00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:55,279 is the reduction in fear of death for 722 00:23:58,630 --> 00:23:56,720 people 723 00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:58,640 yeah i should do an alex i want to point 724 00:24:01,990 --> 00:24:00,400 out the transparency of this kind of 725 00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:02,000 research i mean shoot 726 00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:05,600 anybody on the planet can pull up the uh 727 00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:07,840 experiences and go read for themselves 728 00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:09,440 what their responses to the questions 729 00:24:13,870 --> 00:24:09,760 are 730 00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:13,880 so this is a summary of what 840 731 00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:16,400 834 people shared on the most recent 732 00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,760 version of the survey 733 00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:19,440 i've pulled up the response to the 734 00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:21,440 question fear of death i asked them 735 00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,080 directly 736 00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:24,559 what about your fear of death before the 737 00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:27,080 experience before their nde 738 00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:30,720 32.3 percent greatly feared death 739 00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:32,159 at the current time when they shared 740 00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:33,919 their near-death experience you're 741 00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:36,080 typically years later the percentage 742 00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:37,840 that said they greatly fear death down 743 00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:39,919 to 3.1 744 00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:42,080 remarkably you go right to that key 745 00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:43,679 question the options to 746 00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:45,120 response for their level of fear of 747 00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:46,640 death as i greatly fear death and 748 00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:48,000 moderately fear death 749 00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:49,679 i slightly fear death i did not fear 750 00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,039 death or unknown 751 00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:53,120 so look right directly at that response 752 00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:56,240 to that question of i did not fear death 753 00:24:59,909 --> 00:24:58,000 at the time prior to their near-death 754 00:25:02,310 --> 00:24:59,919 experience 13 755 00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:02,320 did not fear death after their 756 00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:04,600 near-death experience 757 00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:08,080 76.7 said they did not fear death 758 00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,200 alex this is dramatic evidence of the 759 00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:13,200 power of near-death experiences to 760 00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,600 change 761 00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:16,159 lives these are called the after effects 762 00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:16,799 we have 763 00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,640 equally remarkable data about an 764 00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:20,480 increased belief in an afterlife 765 00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,320 increased belief in god 766 00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,640 increased belief in the importance of 767 00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:26,559 compassion and living their daily lives 768 00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,039 but 769 00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:29,200 once again you throw although that 770 00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:30,400 remarkable shift 771 00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:32,880 in values and beliefs as i've said i 772 00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:33,679 can't think of 773 00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:36,400 anything else any other life event or 774 00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:38,000 combination of events that would give 775 00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:39,520 you that kind of 776 00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:41,919 of uh data that i just presented with 777 00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:42,720 you it is 778 00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:45,440 amazing the power of how near-death 779 00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:46,559 experiences can change 780 00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:49,840 lives yeah it is and i wonder you know 781 00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:52,000 i've had a couple of social scientists 782 00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:54,480 on the show who've done related work in 783 00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,159 terms of uh 784 00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:58,640 how people change from going through a 785 00:26:01,110 --> 00:26:00,559 six-week meditation course and something 786 00:26:03,510 --> 00:26:01,120 like that 787 00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,520 and the only thing i just add is that if 788 00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:05,520 you ever looked into the social science 789 00:26:08,710 --> 00:26:06,240 part of this 790 00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:08,720 a social scientist would just throw up 791 00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:10,240 their arms and go 792 00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:13,120 that is crazy i mean fundamental belief 793 00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:14,159 systems like that 794 00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:17,679 switching from 30 to 3 percent we 795 00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:20,640 there's no precedent for that in the 796 00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,480 social sciences of how 797 00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,400 that kind of change can happen which is 798 00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:26,320 what you're saying i'm just 799 00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:28,559 putting it from a different perspective 800 00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,480 yeah i like the way you said that alex 801 00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,320 and i think that's absolutely true 802 00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:35,039 i mean we're not talking a slight change 803 00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:35,440 after 804 00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:37,200 near-death experiences or even a modical 805 00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:38,880 moderate change that's 806 00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:40,640 radically different people and and 807 00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:42,000 people know that that are with your 808 00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:44,400 death experiences they often feel that 809 00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:45,840 that person is a completely different 810 00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:47,279 person they're more loving and more 811 00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:48,240 compassionate 812 00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:49,600 they're more interested in spiritual 813 00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:51,279 matters you know obviously they have an 814 00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:52,000 increased belief 815 00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:54,640 in an afterlife because well shoot they 816 00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:56,159 know from personal experience what 817 00:26:58,390 --> 00:26:57,760 happens beyond death's door and it's 818 00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:58,400 wonderful 819 00:27:02,310 --> 00:27:00,799 so uh this is you know as dramatic as 820 00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:02,320 this evidence is that 821 00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:04,480 uh you know i think it speaks volumes in 822 00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:06,159 addition to all that 823 00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:09,200 it shows how grippingly they accept 824 00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:10,960 reality of their near-death experience 825 00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:12,720 personally for those that had it 826 00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,679 you just don't make huge life changes on 827 00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:17,520 dreams hallucinations 828 00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:20,320 or maybe this is real you only make 829 00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:22,480 profound changes when you know something 830 00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:25,200 is absolutely important but real 831 00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,679 uh and you have time to change your life 832 00:27:31,110 --> 00:27:29,520 in response to it so that's that's 833 00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:31,120 exactly what we see 834 00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:34,240 in mass in near death experiences 835 00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:36,080 you know one of the stats that always 836 00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:37,840 blew me away and then i want to get back 837 00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:39,440 to some of the more kind of 838 00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:42,720 edgy next level stuff is 839 00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:44,799 something like and tell me if this is 840 00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:46,159 still true 841 00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:48,960 something like 96 percent which again i 842 00:27:52,549 --> 00:27:49,520 don't know 843 00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:52,559 you can get 96 percent of people across 844 00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:53,360 the globe 845 00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:55,039 across languages how you could get them 846 00:28:00,310 --> 00:27:56,559 to agree on anything 847 00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:00,320 but something like 96 are certain 848 00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:02,960 of the reality of that experience is 849 00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:05,600 that still is that still hold 850 00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:07,200 yeah that's interesting i was just 851 00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:08,880 reviewing my original evidence the 852 00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:09,840 afterlife book 853 00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:11,679 and the percentage in the survey then 854 00:28:16,990 --> 00:28:13,520 was 96 855 00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:17,000 i've just got the data from 856 00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:20,080 834 near death experiencers 857 00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:23,919 and uh let's see here it's still right 858 00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:25,279 about 95 859 00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:27,279 i've got a huge amount of output of data 860 00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:29,360 because heck we have over 80 questions 861 00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:32,159 but it's somewhere like um and tell them 862 00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:33,840 the question again the question that you 863 00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:35,039 asked 864 00:28:39,909 --> 00:28:38,000 the question i ask very directly is what 865 00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:39,919 do you believe about the reality of your 866 00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:41,360 experience 867 00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:43,760 shortly today's or weeks after it 868 00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:44,559 happened 869 00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:45,919 and then we asked the question again 870 00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:47,279 well what do you believe about the 871 00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:49,120 reality of your experience at the 872 00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:50,640 current time that being when they shared 873 00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:52,399 their near-death experience 874 00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:54,159 so it dropped about a percent at the 875 00:28:58,149 --> 00:28:55,919 current time and again this is 876 00:29:00,909 --> 00:28:58,159 several days old data the percentage 877 00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:00,919 saying experience was definitely real 878 00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:04,399 93.8 percent uh and like you said i 879 00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:06,720 what else what other experience can you 880 00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,000 conceive of 881 00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:11,120 the response uh significantly to the 882 00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:12,399 question the two other 883 00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:14,000 components of the question experience 884 00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:16,240 was probably not real or experienced was 885 00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:17,600 definitely not real 886 00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:19,279 at the time they share their experience 887 00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:21,120 combining those two is one point three 888 00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:22,159 percent 889 00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:24,960 so essentially everybody that has a 890 00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:26,000 near-death experience 891 00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:27,840 believes their experience was definitely 892 00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:30,320 real or at least probably real even the 893 00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:32,640 probably real is only 4.9 894 00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:35,600 the real uh wow message from this data 895 00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:36,000 is 896 00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:38,320 the numbers picking at the time they've 897 00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:40,399 shared their experience and they've had 898 00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:42,640 often years to process the experience 899 00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:44,080 93.8 900 00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:45,760 believe their experience was definitely 901 00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:47,760 real and i would submit 902 00:29:51,909 --> 00:29:49,840 alex for skeptics who feel that 903 00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:51,919 near-death experience is not real 904 00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:53,840 out of people's general ability to 905 00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,679 understand reality from 906 00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:57,760 life experiences that they have if 907 00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:59,360 skeptics want to argue that near-death 908 00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:01,039 experiences are not real 909 00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:02,880 the burden of proof is on the skeptics 910 00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:04,720 to provide strong evidence 911 00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:06,080 proving their point that near-death 912 00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:07,760 experience is not real and they're not 913 00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:08,000 even 914 00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,480 close we've had over 20 different 915 00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:12,480 skeptical explanations come along over 916 00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,360 the years 917 00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:15,600 skeptics themselves can't agree on any 918 00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:17,840 one or several of those explanations 919 00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:20,159 that explains anything that's observed 920 00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:21,760 in near-death experience let alone the 921 00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:23,600 totality 922 00:30:26,630 --> 00:30:25,200 we'll see if we have time to get into 923 00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:26,640 that a little bit 924 00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:29,200 it's kind of a forced equivalency you 925 00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:30,399 know kind of thing i mean 926 00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:33,600 it's not even on the realm of scientific 927 00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:35,760 in terms of the a lot of the objections 928 00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:36,720 and i think they're 929 00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:38,399 manufactured and engineered for a 930 00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,320 particular way to kind of target this 931 00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,000 research because i think it's 932 00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,399 it doesn't conform to certain messages 933 00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:46,080 that but but i don't want to get too far 934 00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:46,880 away from that 935 00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:49,760 what i want to do before we leave this 936 00:30:53,269 --> 00:30:50,159 is 937 00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:53,279 time jeff 938 00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:56,559 with people who you know you wouldn't 939 00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:58,720 expect they're not necessarily looking 940 00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,279 for 941 00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:01,919 near-death experience data near-death 942 00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:03,039 experience research 943 00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,320 and i'm just saying if you're 944 00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:07,039 open-minded why wouldn't you 945 00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:10,320 consider doing the search that i always 946 00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:11,640 do 947 00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:14,480 n-d-e-r-f space 948 00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:17,840 bible devil 949 00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,480 whatever you can pick your choice and it 950 00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:22,559 actually searches through the database 951 00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:25,760 so one thing i want people to know 952 00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:28,320 are you in any way scrubbing the 953 00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:29,120 database 954 00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,600 are you in any way taking out any 955 00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,600 references that might be 956 00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:36,080 offensive to someone you know if it's if 957 00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,200 they're satanic 958 00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:39,840 you know or this and that or i i don't 959 00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:41,279 think so because i even 960 00:31:47,909 --> 00:31:44,720 do n d e r f aliens i do 961 00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:47,919 n d n-d-e-r-f-e-t there are 962 00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:51,200 a few entries that come up i don't know 963 00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:52,240 what to make of them 964 00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:54,720 any more than anyone else does but it to 965 00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,320 answering this question 966 00:31:59,909 --> 00:31:58,080 it doesn't seem to me like you're in 967 00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:59,919 there scrubbing the database in this 968 00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,799 kind of 969 00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:02,880 cancel culture shadow banning you know 970 00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:05,919 we don't know what's really out there 971 00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:08,880 great question alex the only change that 972 00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:10,880 we make to the entirety of what is 973 00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,080 shared with us 974 00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:14,559 is we remove references i mean they made 975 00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:16,399 just like their doctor that they believe 976 00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:18,159 was involved in their life-threatening 977 00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:18,880 event 978 00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:21,760 so we removed names to specific 979 00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:24,399 individuals that would be identifiable 980 00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:26,960 uh sometimes with a they have the date 981 00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:29,360 look geographic location and time so 982 00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:31,760 fine that anybody could look up in paper 983 00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:33,039 archives so we'll 984 00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,840 take out the you know like may 22nd will 985 00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:37,679 take out may 22nd 986 00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:39,760 again just to preserve confidentiality 987 00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:41,039 our overriding concern 988 00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:43,840 is the confidentiality of who shares and 989 00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:44,640 then we do 990 00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:49,039 edit the accounts only for clarity 991 00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:51,600 sometimes they come in with punctuation 992 00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:52,320 wrong 993 00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:54,640 misspellings are fairly common so we 994 00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:56,080 think we're adding to clarity 995 00:33:00,630 --> 00:32:58,799 to do that minor editing we archive in 996 00:33:01,750 --> 00:33:00,640 our database both what was shared with 997 00:33:04,149 --> 00:33:01,760 us originally 998 00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:04,159 and what was uh what was posted on the 999 00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:04,880 web 1000 00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:07,279 uh but all that that actually enhances 1001 00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:09,039 your clarity and understanding or 1002 00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,480 wouldn't be doing it it's a hell of a 1003 00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:12,880 lot of work to go at it some of these 1004 00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:14,080 just to be put up bluntly some 1005 00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:16,640 near-death experiences are remarkably 1006 00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:17,919 poorly shared 1007 00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:20,159 are written and you when you and these 1008 00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:21,120 are people sometimes 1009 00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:22,799 suffer brain injury from their 1010 00:33:26,549 --> 00:33:24,159 life-threatening event 1011 00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:26,559 and they just simply can't type well so 1012 00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:28,000 we very cautiously 1013 00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:31,440 actually jody has that takes over that 1014 00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:33,120 piece and very carefully 1015 00:33:39,029 --> 00:33:36,159 transcribes it that's done 1016 00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:39,039 exactly what they were saying but but 1017 00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:40,880 but cleaned up punctuation-wise for 1018 00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:41,919 example 1019 00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:43,840 we post everything that they share with 1020 00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,120 us it would be 1021 00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,519 an abomination to us to pull out 1022 00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:49,519 anything that we didn't like or we 1023 00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:50,720 disagreed with 1024 00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:54,320 if they share it with us it goes up um 1025 00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:57,760 and so that's uh um that's the integrity 1026 00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:59,200 of what we have to do we have to do it 1027 00:34:03,269 --> 00:34:00,000 that way 1028 00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:03,279 uh we're not on the censorship 1029 00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:05,200 and i don't even know how you would set 1030 00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:06,480 up boundaries even if you want to do 1031 00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:07,039 that 1032 00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:10,960 on the website 1033 00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:14,399 uh as basically exactly what they have 1034 00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:16,480 to say 1035 00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:19,280 and that is and one other thing that's 1036 00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:20,480 important too 1037 00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:22,960 just out of integrity uh sometimes there 1038 00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:24,720 can be a little bit of subjectivity 1039 00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:25,280 about 1040 00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:27,359 was a life-threatening event severe 1041 00:34:31,589 --> 00:34:28,320 enough or 1042 00:34:33,030 --> 00:34:31,599 was the experience associated with the 1043 00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:33,040 life-threatening event period of 1044 00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:35,040 unconsciousness if there's any ambiguity 1045 00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,520 about that they're not ndes but 1046 00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:39,679 probable indies and we have a policy of 1047 00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:42,320 posting every single probable nde 1048 00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:43,599 that gives us permission and 1049 00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:45,839 interestingly that's about 99 1050 00:34:49,030 --> 00:34:48,480 allow us to post experience anonymously 1051 00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:49,040 so again 1052 00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:50,879 anybody on the planet can decide for 1053 00:34:53,909 --> 00:34:52,480 themselves uh 1054 00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:53,919 you know removing some of that 1055 00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:55,760 subjectivity about 1056 00:34:59,510 --> 00:34:57,680 you know what the exact classification 1057 00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:59,520 of an nde so 1058 00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:01,680 we try to be very very careful to make 1059 00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:04,079 sure that we are appropriately sharing 1060 00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:06,480 the amazing message of near-death 1061 00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:07,680 experience with the world 1062 00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:11,839 as precisely and accurately as possible 1063 00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:13,520 you know i can't stress enough from my 1064 00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:16,320 perspective how important 1065 00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:19,920 that one question is with that 1066 00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:22,720 you are embracing on one hand the 1067 00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:23,359 wonderful 1068 00:35:30,030 --> 00:35:27,119 about but you're also 1069 00:35:32,390 --> 00:35:30,040 embracing the strangeness the 1070 00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:32,400 non-reality reality of it 1071 00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:34,320 that i think we have to come to grips 1072 00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:35,440 with i think 1073 00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:37,920 is what's the future of near-death 1074 00:35:42,790 --> 00:35:39,200 experience research 1075 00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:42,800 because as your data that you climb on 1076 00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,960 top of is this social scientist 1077 00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:47,200 hat that you put on and you start 1078 00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:50,720 pulling together these statistics 1079 00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:53,520 if someone goes past the statistics it 1080 00:35:57,430 --> 00:35:55,119 does get messy 1081 00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:57,440 some people are talking about jesus 1082 00:36:01,829 --> 00:35:58,720 other people are saying 1083 00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:01,839 there's religion isn't important 1084 00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:03,760 some people are talking about loved ones 1085 00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:05,920 some people are not there are built-in 1086 00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:07,440 contradictions 1087 00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,119 in the fact that you are not scrubbing 1088 00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,280 those out that you're letting those 1089 00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,760 live and breathe and touch people in 1090 00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:15,520 whatever way they're touching them 1091 00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:17,280 and you're still saying but wait a 1092 00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:18,960 minute we do have 1093 00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:21,119 a survey that was scientifically 1094 00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:23,440 developed and we can look at some of the 1095 00:36:28,990 --> 00:36:25,359 patterns that emerge from that 1096 00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:29,000 i think is super important 1097 00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:31,920 underutilized as a research tool i wish 1098 00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:33,920 more people were 1099 00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:36,880 digging into your data and doing some 1100 00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:37,359 real 1101 00:36:40,630 --> 00:36:39,760 analysis from a social scientist 1102 00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:40,640 perspective 1103 00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:43,599 there's an unlimited number of phd uh 1104 00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,839 dissertations there waiting to happen 1105 00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:47,839 if someone want to cross correlate your 1106 00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:50,320 data with all sorts of other social 1107 00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,599 science data we have 1108 00:36:55,470 --> 00:36:53,280 so there's that and then there's also 1109 00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:55,480 the opportunity for this personal 1110 00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:59,280 exploration to see how your beliefs 1111 00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:00,480 conform to 1112 00:37:04,870 --> 00:37:03,359 just a wide variety of beliefs so is 1113 00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:04,880 there any part of that you want to pull 1114 00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:06,640 apart in terms of the 1115 00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:11,200 the strangeness of of these accounts 1116 00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:13,200 yeah well i do want to address alex i 1117 00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:14,240 totally agree 1118 00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,400 that there's a lot more work that either 1119 00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,079 i could do or other people could do 1120 00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:20,320 with the data that we have from our 1121 00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:21,280 website 1122 00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:23,200 interestingly enough uh just within the 1123 00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:26,000 past week i got the most recent edition 1124 00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:28,240 of the journal of near-death studies 1125 00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:30,880 and in that was an article from a person 1126 00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:32,240 i'd worked with and 1127 00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,440 was able to share him the data from 1128 00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:37,520 this was something over 500 sequential 1129 00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:39,520 near-death experiences from the indirf 1130 00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:40,560 website 1131 00:37:43,990 --> 00:37:43,200 and the article had an amazing sort of 1132 00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,000 analysis 1133 00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:46,480 of it uh the most common words the the 1134 00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,079 word associations 1135 00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:50,480 and so this was a major article to use 1136 00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:51,680 the actual data 1137 00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:54,880 posted on the website and um shared with 1138 00:37:58,870 --> 00:37:56,320 them i shared it with them in excel 1139 00:38:00,150 --> 00:37:58,880 database form but their spreadsheet form 1140 00:38:02,150 --> 00:38:00,160 but interestingly 1141 00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:02,160 one of the there was a lot of you know 1142 00:38:04,950 --> 00:38:03,599 anybody that has a journal of near-death 1143 00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:04,960 studies i encourage you to read that 1144 00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:05,920 article but 1145 00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,480 just for interest sakes the two most 1146 00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:10,240 common words that kicked out 1147 00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:12,800 as descriptors of near-death experience 1148 00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:13,280 were 1149 00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:16,400 in order light and love 1150 00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:18,640 and immediately you can see how that you 1151 00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:19,839 know you're getting into 1152 00:38:23,109 --> 00:38:22,079 uh around you know an unearthly realm in 1153 00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:23,119 terms of us 1154 00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:24,480 when they describe light near death 1155 00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:26,240 experiences it's much more likely to be 1156 00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:27,680 in an earthly light 1157 00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:29,599 than an earthly light much more likely 1158 00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:31,119 to be an unearthly love that they're 1159 00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:32,800 describing than an earthly love so you 1160 00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:33,520 can see 1161 00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:36,000 how important these sort of deeper 1162 00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:36,960 workings are 1163 00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:38,400 to the near death experiencers 1164 00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:40,640 themselves when they use those words and 1165 00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:43,200 their descriptors of their experience 1166 00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:45,200 and i do want to bring it back because i 1167 00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:48,000 maybe didn't phrase that question 1168 00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:52,320 as well as i could these accounts 1169 00:38:59,190 --> 00:38:56,240 taken from a rational perspective 1170 00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:59,200 do not make sense in a lot of ways in 1171 00:39:00,950 --> 00:39:00,560 the same way i always remember when i 1172 00:39:02,710 --> 00:39:00,960 first 1173 00:39:05,190 --> 00:39:02,720 interviewed raymond moody the guy who 1174 00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:05,200 was credited for coining 1175 00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:08,800 the term near-death experience dr moody 1176 00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:09,440 is really 1177 00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:12,640 an interesting guy and he's his own kind 1178 00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:12,960 of 1179 00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:16,240 bird you know what i mean but he always 1180 00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:17,040 said 1181 00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,839 that we need a new system of logic 1182 00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:22,320 before we can even begin to understand 1183 00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:22,960 that 1184 00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:25,760 and i think there's so much there in 1185 00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:28,000 that little kernel that he gives us 1186 00:39:32,069 --> 00:39:31,280 because if we're going to stand in this 1187 00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:32,079 here now 1188 00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:35,440 time space reality and suggest that we 1189 00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:37,520 can understand 1190 00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:39,760 this other realm and reality that's 1191 00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:40,960 being revealed to us 1192 00:39:45,430 --> 00:39:43,599 i think we've missed the point because 1193 00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:45,440 the one of the things that comes clear 1194 00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:46,800 comes through clearly 1195 00:39:51,910 --> 00:39:50,240 in this amazing database is that 1196 00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:51,920 they feel like that's the greater 1197 00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:55,200 reality and this is the lesser reality 1198 00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:57,280 so i just think that we're doing the 1199 00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:58,480 best we can 1200 00:40:01,589 --> 00:40:00,240 but i just think sometimes don't you 1201 00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:01,599 think we have to kind of 1202 00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:04,800 pause and say how sure are we of this 1203 00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:06,079 terra firma that we 1204 00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:09,200 kind of stand on and do you know what i 1205 00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,480 mean 1206 00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:12,640 absolutely that's a great point alex i 1207 00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:15,119 mean for example when people describe 1208 00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:17,760 god over and over i hear from them 1209 00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:19,440 that's an earthly term what i 1210 00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:22,480 meant was totally beyond earthly words 1211 00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:24,560 god the moment you say that word is 1212 00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:26,480 limiting it's a concise thing what they 1213 00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:26,800 say 1214 00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:29,200 was infinite in something beyond human 1215 00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:30,400 conception so 1216 00:40:33,910 --> 00:40:32,640 we're literally above and beyond logic 1217 00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:33,920 we need a whole 1218 00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:36,880 seeming of language to help describe 1219 00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:38,880 some of these things i mean you can 1220 00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:42,079 uh you have whole many many near-death 1221 00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:44,079 experiences describing things that are 1222 00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:44,480 so 1223 00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:47,200 unearthly that they're literally hard to 1224 00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:47,920 describe 1225 00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:50,480 in english language a very well over 1226 00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,359 half of 1227 00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:53,040 people that have a near-death experience 1228 00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:54,800 and that's the data from the most recent 1229 00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:55,520 survey 1230 00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:56,880 considered their experience to be 1231 00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:58,560 ineffable that means difficult to 1232 00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:59,119 describe 1233 00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:02,160 in words so you know again it's one of 1234 00:41:05,829 --> 00:41:04,079 those things where we either need a new 1235 00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:05,839 language sort of a new logic a 1236 00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:07,760 conceptual framework 1237 00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:10,800 i think from to really start to 1238 00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,640 branch out and grasp these uh remarkably 1239 00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:16,960 unearthly experiences they so 1240 00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,960 consistently describe it 1241 00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:20,560 and they do a good job i might add i 1242 00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:22,480 mean for you know fortunately folks have 1243 00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:23,280 had an 1244 00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:25,680 average of 15 years from their nd until 1245 00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:27,119 they share it so they certainly had a 1246 00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:27,520 chance 1247 00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:30,000 to express it in words as best as 1248 00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:31,760 possible in fact we had a 1249 00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:33,520 quality assurance survey question and 1250 00:41:36,550 --> 00:41:35,440 the great great majority of people are 1251 00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:36,560 comfortable that 1252 00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:38,720 what they shared accurately and 1253 00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:39,680 completely 1254 00:41:43,030 --> 00:41:41,200 conveyed their experience which is 1255 00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:43,040 pretty awesome given its common ineff 1256 00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:44,000 ability 1257 00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:46,400 but we you know we need to we need to be 1258 00:41:51,109 --> 00:41:49,119 aware that that some of the concepts the 1259 00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:51,119 the experience they have 1260 00:41:54,150 --> 00:41:52,640 is so and sometimes they they just 1261 00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,160 literally can't even 1262 00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:56,400 express some of the the deeper parts of 1263 00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:57,280 their experience 1264 00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:00,400 adequately in words and it's it's uh we 1265 00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:02,400 just we just need a whole new 1266 00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:05,280 language i guess to really grow to 1267 00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:07,280 understand that 1268 00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,680 and let me kind of take that a tiny step 1269 00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,680 further i'm just wondering on a 1270 00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:13,839 kind of personal philosophical level 1271 00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:16,880 because you're a very deep thinking guy 1272 00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:20,560 what about this idea of 1273 00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:23,520 you know which reality does this ever 1274 00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:26,079 kind of send you down that path of going 1275 00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:28,240 you know i gotta get up tomorrow and i 1276 00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:30,000 love i'm sure you love your practice 1277 00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:31,920 and you love your patients you love 1278 00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:33,839 helping people 1279 00:42:38,470 --> 00:42:36,079 but you're also immersed in this other 1280 00:42:41,109 --> 00:42:38,480 reality that's telling you 1281 00:42:42,309 --> 00:42:41,119 jeff this is really the greater reality 1282 00:42:45,030 --> 00:42:42,319 what about that how 1283 00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:45,040 do you process that that's a great 1284 00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:45,520 question 1285 00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:48,160 i think people that have done near-death 1286 00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,520 experience like me 1287 00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:51,280 have sort of had that time when they 1288 00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:53,839 really get it it sinks in you go wow 1289 00:42:57,750 --> 00:42:56,240 this is uh what some yendi ears i think 1290 00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:57,760 very aptly say 1291 00:43:02,230 --> 00:43:00,480 the boot camp of our spiritual existence 1292 00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:02,240 that afterlife you know where you don't 1293 00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:03,200 have that pain 1294 00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:06,079 misery and the stuff that we have here 1295 00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:07,200 in our earthly life 1296 00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:09,280 is our real home as they say over and 1297 00:43:13,349 --> 00:43:10,880 over by the hundreds 1298 00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:13,359 and so there i think there comes a time 1299 00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:15,040 in in in many near-death experience 1300 00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:16,960 researchers where you just go wow i'm 1301 00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:18,240 not you 1302 00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:20,319 you sought to learn about them but but 1303 00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:21,359 look what you learned 1304 00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:23,920 we're not really home that there's a 1305 00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:24,960 vastly better 1306 00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:28,079 existence realm of being than our 1307 00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,680 everyday earthly life 1308 00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:31,599 where these miseries and stuff that we 1309 00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:34,160 have to put up every day don't exist 1310 00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:37,359 so that that takes some an adjustment i 1311 00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:38,880 mean you have to really 1312 00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,200 sort of say wow i mean the evidence is 1313 00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:43,440 overwhelming that that's true 1314 00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:46,800 but i think sort of what what helps me 1315 00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:47,599 to get 1316 00:43:51,510 --> 00:43:50,000 adjust through that and move on is you 1317 00:43:53,670 --> 00:43:51,520 understand that 1318 00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:53,680 our earthly life is finite and we're 1319 00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:55,920 infinite beings this is literally alex a 1320 00:43:58,550 --> 00:43:58,000 tiniest slice of our eternal existence 1321 00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,560 so 1322 00:44:01,910 --> 00:44:00,400 i think with that understanding you just 1323 00:44:02,550 --> 00:44:01,920 have to say it's important that we're 1324 00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:02,560 here 1325 00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,000 and that we hear over and over from 1326 00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:06,240 near-death experiences our life on earth 1327 00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:08,240 is not an accident uh 1328 00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:10,880 you know we're it we're here to to learn 1329 00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:11,760 we're here to 1330 00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,920 to live our life to the best way that we 1331 00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:14,800 can 1332 00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:16,960 and there's meaning and purpose to it a 1333 00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:18,480 meaning and purpose more than i would 1334 00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:20,240 have ever guessed before i started my 1335 00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:22,160 near-death experience research 1336 00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:24,480 so i think all of that broad 1337 00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:26,800 understanding of near-death experience 1338 00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:29,119 plus the motivation that the near-death 1339 00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:30,400 experiencers 1340 00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:33,119 state over and over this is literally an 1341 00:44:37,349 --> 00:44:35,200 act of love to go through your life and 1342 00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:37,359 and reach out to others as lovingly as 1343 00:44:40,230 --> 00:44:38,079 possible 1344 00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,240 as i just said number two word used in 1345 00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:42,400 describing near-death experience is love 1346 00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:44,400 so it sort of gives you that that 1347 00:44:47,910 --> 00:44:46,400 motivation that understanding that even 1348 00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,920 though this is the boot camp of our 1349 00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:49,680 spiritual existence 1350 00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:51,920 it's important and and in some ways a 1351 00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:54,000 gift and we just do the best we can with 1352 00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:55,839 it and reach out in love 1353 00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:58,319 and so with with that to with that 1354 00:45:01,030 --> 00:45:00,400 thought behind me uh that that certainly 1355 00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:01,040 guides 1356 00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:02,560 pretty much everything i do now in my 1357 00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:04,400 current life 1358 00:45:09,109 --> 00:45:06,880 that's awesome i want to pick up on two 1359 00:45:11,430 --> 00:45:09,119 words that you just use 1360 00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:11,440 meaning and purpose and you said that 1361 00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:13,599 that comes through 1362 00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:17,040 again through the data folks not through 1363 00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:20,000 a divine revelatory experience it's the 1364 00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:21,280 data 1365 00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:23,040 because one of my things has always been 1366 00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:24,640 and this is just what i 1367 00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:28,240 stumbled onto is there's 1368 00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,599 some there's some misinformation 1369 00:45:34,790 --> 00:45:33,359 about near-death experience in my 1370 00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:34,800 opinion i want to bounce some of these 1371 00:45:38,309 --> 00:45:35,680 off you 1372 00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:38,319 and there's also some disinformation i 1373 00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:39,280 mean where people are 1374 00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:42,480 intentionally saying something different 1375 00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:44,160 than what is true 1376 00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,760 and i've encountered this over and over 1377 00:45:48,470 --> 00:45:47,280 again and one of my frustrations in 1378 00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:48,480 talking to 1379 00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:52,000 uh dr bruce grayson who is fantastic by 1380 00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:52,560 the way 1381 00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,359 he is the man he's done so much 1382 00:46:01,990 --> 00:46:00,000 in a lot of ways i think the database is 1383 00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:02,000 kind of more important than any one 1384 00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:02,800 person's 1385 00:46:06,550 --> 00:46:05,440 research but that shouldn't even come 1386 00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:06,560 into play 1387 00:46:11,109 --> 00:46:09,599 he's fantastic in what he's done 1388 00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:11,119 but i kind of pushed him on the fact 1389 00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:16,800 that you guys have had to push against 1390 00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:19,920 criticism misinformation 1391 00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:23,440 nonsense research that gets catapulted 1392 00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:26,000 into the front of the line in terms of 1393 00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,520 public perception 1394 00:46:30,790 --> 00:46:30,240 in terms of cover of magazines in terms 1395 00:46:34,630 --> 00:46:30,800 of 1396 00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:34,640 it doesn't make sense 1397 00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:37,680 it's fake and i think one of the reasons 1398 00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:39,520 behind that is we do have to step back 1399 00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:40,640 and understand 1400 00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:43,920 that science is telling us it is their 1401 00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:48,000 dogma you are meaningless 1402 00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,760 because there is no meaning in any of 1403 00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:51,920 the universe you know if the universe is 1404 00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:53,119 meaningless 1405 00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:54,480 how can there be any meaning in your 1406 00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:56,400 life because if there's any meaning in 1407 00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:57,359 your life then the 1408 00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:59,280 universe isn't meaningless and that's 1409 00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:01,280 not just a philosophical mind game that 1410 00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:02,160 is the truth 1411 00:47:06,069 --> 00:47:04,400 in terms of their dogma in terms of 1412 00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:06,079 scientific materialism 1413 00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:08,160 and i always get kind of irked a little 1414 00:47:12,390 --> 00:47:10,000 bit when people go oh yeah but 1415 00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:12,400 scientists don't believe that it's like 1416 00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:13,200 wait a minute 1417 00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:16,319 if that's the official dogma if that's 1418 00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,400 what neuroscience is saying 1419 00:47:22,069 --> 00:47:20,400 that you are an epiphenomenon of your 1420 00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:22,079 brain then that's 1421 00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:24,800 the dogma and ultimately that is the 1422 00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:25,520 song 1423 00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:28,800 that everyone has to dance to so 1424 00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:31,920 i don't know if you've encountered that 1425 00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:34,160 i can give you examples i'm going to do 1426 00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:35,520 in this introduction 1427 00:47:39,589 --> 00:47:38,319 an example that i sent to you with a guy 1428 00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:39,599 who's really a pretty nice guy 1429 00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:41,760 dr john fisher at university of 1430 00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:43,920 california riverside you know and he 1431 00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:45,200 got four million dollars from the 1432 00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:46,800 templeton foundation which in and of 1433 00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,000 itself is a total champ 1434 00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:50,160 right templeton the most spiritual guy 1435 00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:52,240 you know sets up a foundation to study 1436 00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,440 science and religion 1437 00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:55,280 and they get in there and they give it 1438 00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:56,480 to a guy who's good at 1439 00:47:59,670 --> 00:47:57,920 quote-unquote debunk near-death 1440 00:48:03,109 --> 00:47:59,680 experience without ever 1441 00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:03,119 having talked to anyone who's had a 1442 00:48:06,549 --> 00:48:04,079 near-death experience 1443 00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:06,559 but that's okay without getting into 1444 00:48:08,950 --> 00:48:08,480 personalities but i did invite you and 1445 00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:08,960 you were 1446 00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:14,240 before the whole covet happened but 1447 00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:16,960 great great great let me wrap all that 1448 00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:19,040 up into this question jeff 1449 00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:22,240 what do you think about the claim 1450 00:48:29,829 --> 00:48:25,599 that you're kind of going against 1451 00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:29,839 something here that isn't exactly 1452 00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:32,400 made clear articulated and that there is 1453 00:48:37,510 --> 00:48:34,480 somewhat of a disinformation campaign 1454 00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:37,520 against this kind of research 1455 00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:39,520 sure alex of course there's going to be 1456 00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,200 you know with the 1457 00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:43,680 extreme visibility and to some extent 1458 00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:45,359 popularity of near-death experiences 1459 00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:46,400 you're going to have people 1460 00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:48,880 try to ride that to get you know clicks 1461 00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:49,839 on youtube 1462 00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:52,880 or or you know sell books or some such 1463 00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:54,640 thing to contain misinformation and 1464 00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,000 that's out there 1465 00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:58,319 the good news is i'm very confident the 1466 00:49:02,230 --> 00:48:59,760 truth will prevail 1467 00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,240 the reason for that is disinformation 1468 00:49:08,230 --> 00:49:04,880 mistruth is random 1469 00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:08,240 in science what's real is consistently 1470 00:49:11,030 --> 00:49:09,440 observed 1471 00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:11,040 you're going to have a variety of 1472 00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:12,480 mistruth none of it 1473 00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:16,559 really being found by other researchers 1474 00:49:20,069 --> 00:49:18,160 and that's the glory of the scientific 1475 00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:20,079 method it's not just what one person can 1476 00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:21,440 identify 1477 00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:23,599 the the findings should be corroborated 1478 00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:25,119 by other researchers 1479 00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:27,520 uh by other investigations over a period 1480 00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:28,480 of time 1481 00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:31,040 that's how you can hone in on the truth 1482 00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:32,079 through science 1483 00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:34,400 through misinformation should crap like 1484 00:49:38,230 --> 00:49:36,240 that i mean they may have their 15 1485 00:49:40,309 --> 00:49:38,240 minutes of fame on a youtube 1486 00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:40,319 but their misinformation isn't 1487 00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:42,960 corroborated by me or anybody else 1488 00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:46,079 and as time goes on people are just 1489 00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:47,839 going to let go of whatever 1490 00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:49,920 it was that they showed people really 1491 00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:51,760 alex i firmly believe are interested in 1492 00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:53,599 the truth what's the reality i mean 1493 00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:55,520 it's not just you and i that are seekers 1494 00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:57,200 about that and are focused on that 1495 00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:59,280 question there's a vast number of other 1496 00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:00,000 people 1497 00:50:05,109 --> 00:50:03,200 search 1498 00:50:07,030 --> 00:50:05,119 are going to be focused on things that 1499 00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:07,040 they are consistently observed from 1500 00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:08,480 credible sources 1501 00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:10,319 uh from scholarly sources and i think 1502 00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:11,760 that's what's really going to inform 1503 00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:12,640 people 1504 00:50:16,309 --> 00:50:14,640 more than disinformation in the future 1505 00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,319 thank goodness 1506 00:50:19,990 --> 00:50:18,160 i think you're right and i think the 1507 00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:20,000 other thing that's undeniable 1508 00:50:23,910 --> 00:50:22,800 is the culture shift around near-death 1509 00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:23,920 experience 1510 00:50:29,829 --> 00:50:27,280 that you and dr grace unfortunately and 1511 00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,839 so many other researchers that we could 1512 00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,760 name off and i've been fortunate to talk 1513 00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:33,440 to so many of them and they're also 1514 00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:34,640 inspirational 1515 00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:36,800 you guys have turned the ship and it's 1516 00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:38,079 undeniable 1517 00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:40,800 from a public kind of person on the 1518 00:50:44,549 --> 00:50:41,280 street 1519 00:50:47,829 --> 00:50:44,559 you know absolutely the change is there 1520 00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:47,839 so i guess one related question 1521 00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:49,520 to that that i'd love to get your 1522 00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:50,960 thought on 1523 00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:54,000 is when i look i mean one of the ways i 1524 00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:57,119 know that's true is i look how near 1525 00:51:01,030 --> 00:50:57,520 death 1526 00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:01,040 experience is working its way into 1527 00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:04,400 popular culture in terms of media 1528 00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:06,720 but i also look at the way it's being 1529 00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,400 kind of presented 1530 00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:10,800 and distorted and it's one thing to say 1531 00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:12,079 well they're just trying to entertain 1532 00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:12,640 people 1533 00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:14,400 and it's sci-fi or stuff like that i 1534 00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:15,839 can't tell you how many emails i get 1535 00:51:21,109 --> 00:51:17,040 from people who say 1536 00:51:23,430 --> 00:51:21,119 oh check out oa on netflix 1537 00:51:25,750 --> 00:51:23,440 and it kind of it's this netflix series 1538 00:51:28,630 --> 00:51:25,760 super popular critically acclaimed 1539 00:51:30,150 --> 00:51:28,640 and it had a a near-death experience 1540 00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:30,160 theme in it 1541 00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:33,680 but jeff if you ever go watch that show 1542 00:51:40,069 --> 00:51:37,440 it it doesn't conform at all to 1543 00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:40,079 what near-death experience science that 1544 00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,200 you report 1545 00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:43,440 and again folks i can't just i mean just 1546 00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:44,800 all about the data man 1547 00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,960 just ask him to pull up his excel 1548 00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:48,000 spreadsheet 1549 00:51:51,589 --> 00:51:49,520 and he'll tell you he hasn't scrubbed 1550 00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:51,599 the data he says these accounts come in 1551 00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:53,200 from all over the world 1552 00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:55,920 95 say i'm definitely sure this thing is 1553 00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:56,960 real 1554 00:52:01,270 --> 00:52:00,400 when you go to another account when it's 1555 00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:01,280 fictionalized 1556 00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:03,520 and it's like all over the board the 1557 00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:04,640 message is like 1558 00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:06,800 suck you in with yeah i did i almost 1559 00:52:11,349 --> 00:52:08,400 died and then i had this experience 1560 00:52:12,790 --> 00:52:11,359 and then from there it's all different 1561 00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:12,800 it just makes me wonder 1562 00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:15,839 i watch undone on amazon prime a great 1563 00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:18,079 kind of series it's it's but again it's 1564 00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:20,000 this near-death experience person almost 1565 00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:20,400 dies 1566 00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:23,440 encounters their father in the but again 1567 00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:25,440 then it goes into this twist of 1568 00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:27,599 back to kind of what our media seems 1569 00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:28,720 fascinated about 1570 00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:31,280 murder death evil you know all this 1571 00:52:35,349 --> 00:52:32,319 other stuff 1572 00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:35,359 it just seems to me so orchestrated 1573 00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:39,040 so scripted to try and take it and then 1574 00:52:42,069 --> 00:52:39,680 whoa 1575 00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:42,079 let's co-opt it and pull it back in this 1576 00:52:46,069 --> 00:52:43,359 direction 1577 00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:46,079 do you have any feelings about how 1578 00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:46,720 near-death 1579 00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:50,000 experience science is portrayed 1580 00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:53,520 in media as you see it pop up 1581 00:52:56,549 --> 00:52:54,960 you know that's a good question alex i 1582 00:52:59,829 --> 00:52:56,559 think it's a mixed bag 1583 00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:59,839 interestingly a few months ago i had a 1584 00:53:02,549 --> 00:53:00,960 it's a national 1585 00:53:04,870 --> 00:53:02,559 television show that will remain 1586 00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:04,880 anonymous that was going to have 1587 00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:08,079 a near-death experience themed aspect to 1588 00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:09,760 it in the next season and they actually 1589 00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:11,520 had a whole group of people sit down and 1590 00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:12,559 talk with me 1591 00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:13,920 and talk about what they understood 1592 00:53:17,109 --> 00:53:15,599 about a near-death experience or what 1593 00:53:19,510 --> 00:53:17,119 they were trying to do 1594 00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:19,520 and it was a very good discussion they 1595 00:53:23,270 --> 00:53:21,440 asked very good questions and i 1596 00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:23,280 i sort of steered them right down the 1597 00:53:27,030 --> 00:53:25,200 line of here's what really happens in 1598 00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:27,040 near-death experiences and i 1599 00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:29,040 i i'm not i haven't followed up on that 1600 00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:32,160 show it's not my type 1601 00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:33,680 but i think they were sincerely 1602 00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:35,359 interested in presenting it as 1603 00:53:39,670 --> 00:53:37,920 in some significant truthful manner i 1604 00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:39,680 mean the trouble is in the entertainment 1605 00:53:43,270 --> 00:53:41,839 industry it is so fractured there are so 1606 00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:43,280 vast many 1607 00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:45,280 entertainment outlets that i think 1608 00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:47,119 they're all at this point now more than 1609 00:53:51,349 --> 00:53:49,200 ever scrambling over each other to get 1610 00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:51,359 those clicks get those views 1611 00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:54,000 uh and and have a narrower narrower 1612 00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:56,319 audience so i think that may 1613 00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:59,040 encourage lately more sensationalism 1614 00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:00,720 than we had in the past with near-death 1615 00:54:05,510 --> 00:54:02,480 experience having said that 1616 00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:05,520 it's a mixed bag for easter i was 1617 00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:06,559 interviewed by 1618 00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:09,200 inside edition as part of two near-death 1619 00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:11,359 experiencers it's on youtube if you want 1620 00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:12,559 to look it up 1621 00:54:16,069 --> 00:54:14,559 last time i looked they're way over 300 1622 00:54:18,870 --> 00:54:16,079 000 views and it was 1623 00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:18,880 outstanding they had the near-death 1624 00:54:23,349 --> 00:54:20,319 experiencers 1625 00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:23,359 very vividly beautifully actually 1626 00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:24,960 describing that you know what happened 1627 00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:26,800 to them during the near-death experience 1628 00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:28,079 and they interviewed me without even 1629 00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:29,839 knowing what they were going to say and 1630 00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:31,520 the consistency of 1631 00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:32,960 what what i was saying when i talked 1632 00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:34,880 about my research was what they actually 1633 00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:37,359 described was amazing so 1634 00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:39,599 i would like to think over time you know 1635 00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:40,480 especially 1636 00:54:43,910 --> 00:54:42,160 people can be entertained and you can be 1637 00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:43,920 entertained in a lot of ways but i think 1638 00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:45,359 those who really want to know the truth 1639 00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:46,400 that are seekers 1640 00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:48,960 that want to understand uh they'll find 1641 00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:50,559 ways to get to the truth 1642 00:54:53,990 --> 00:54:53,280 apart from the entertainment industry 1643 00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:54,000 excellent 1644 00:54:57,510 --> 00:54:55,680 really like the way you put that and i i 1645 00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:57,520 think you make a very convincing case 1646 00:55:01,670 --> 00:54:59,760 especially when you tie it to your 1647 00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:01,680 earlier point about the truth 1648 00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:04,000 and how that truth has a bit has an 1649 00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:06,400 ability to resonate with us at a deeper 1650 00:55:09,430 --> 00:55:07,200 level 1651 00:55:11,190 --> 00:55:09,440 so we kind of have a tuning fork that 1652 00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:11,200 allows us to kind of maybe 1653 00:55:14,789 --> 00:55:13,599 sort through a lot of that crap and say 1654 00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:14,799 no i get it that's 1655 00:55:24,390 --> 00:55:19,200 that was really the truth similarly 1656 00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:24,400 and very controversially i run into 1657 00:55:28,390 --> 00:55:26,559 a lot of frustration sometimes when i 1658 00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:28,400 talk to christian people 1659 00:55:35,549 --> 00:55:32,640 that to me seem to be co-opting 1660 00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:35,559 maybe sometimes inadvertently and 1661 00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:37,280 misinterpreting 1662 00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:40,480 what i understand to be the data 1663 00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:44,240 so i am all for anyone's 1664 00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:46,799 spiritual experience and how they 1665 00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:47,760 express it 1666 00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:50,640 and i have the utmost respect for that 1667 00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:52,000 because 1668 00:55:59,109 --> 00:55:55,839 like you i follow the data and i say oh 1669 00:56:02,069 --> 00:55:59,119 big news the big news flash there is 1670 00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:02,079 this extended reality 1671 00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:04,720 next news flash there does seem to be 1672 00:56:10,230 --> 00:56:05,119 this 1673 00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:10,240 light and love that's pulling me towards 1674 00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:10,720 it 1675 00:56:16,950 --> 00:56:13,760 and when i go search nderf 1676 00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:16,960 baphomet or you know do what thou 1677 00:56:23,510 --> 00:56:20,000 wilt or you know occult magic 1678 00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:23,520 i get zero results and when i go search 1679 00:56:30,789 --> 00:56:24,240 for 1680 00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:30,799 i get pages and pages of pages 1681 00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:34,400 i find that very very promising and 1682 00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:35,680 compelling 1683 00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:39,520 but i don't think the research 1684 00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:42,839 suggests that the primacy of 1685 00:56:47,510 --> 00:56:44,160 christianity 1686 00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:47,520 it's about 1687 00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:51,119 this is the way is supported in the data 1688 00:56:57,309 --> 00:56:54,400 i don't think any religiosity to me 1689 00:56:59,750 --> 00:56:57,319 my read of the data is increase 1690 00:57:03,589 --> 00:56:59,760 spirituality 1691 00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,599 decreased religiosity with this kind of 1692 00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:05,520 and i can pull it up i will pull it up 1693 00:57:07,750 --> 00:57:07,119 you know right out of your book i think 1694 00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:07,760 you can 1695 00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:11,119 get my point by now that jeff 1696 00:57:16,470 --> 00:57:13,920 and jody but jeff in his book he just 1697 00:57:18,870 --> 00:57:16,480 spits the truth as it comes through 1698 00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:18,880 so he tells you what they say about god 1699 00:57:22,789 --> 00:57:20,480 he tells you what they say about their 1700 00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:22,799 religious beliefs before and after 1701 00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:26,880 and most if it's 50 50 50 of people say 1702 00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:29,520 yeah i just stay with my religion it's 1703 00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:31,680 fine and what i learned said that 1704 00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:33,839 everything i'm experiencing here about 1705 00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:35,599 love and compassion is good and i'm on 1706 00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:36,720 the right track 1707 00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:38,480 but a good even good number of those 1708 00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:41,680 people say but i don't feel like it's 1709 00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:44,559 this most important this is the most 1710 00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:45,680 only way 1711 00:57:49,430 --> 00:57:48,160 screw everybody else go protest in the 1712 00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:49,440 street kind of thing 1713 00:57:54,309 --> 00:57:52,480 and 50 of them which is super important 1714 00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:54,319 when you think about again the 1715 00:57:58,230 --> 00:57:57,040 the social cohesion and how hard it is 1716 00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:58,240 to change these things 1717 00:58:02,150 --> 00:58:00,640 50 percent say you know i really felt 1718 00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:02,160 like 1719 00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:04,400 the religious experience i had doesn't 1720 00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:06,640 really fit with this greater reality 1721 00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:07,520 that i have 1722 00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:11,040 so i might have 1723 00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:14,079 added too much of my own opinion on that 1724 00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:17,760 but tell us what you found about 1725 00:58:22,309 --> 00:58:20,000 religious experience and spiritual 1726 00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:22,319 experience and religiosity 1727 00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:25,280 in this work yeah uh you know that's a 1728 00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:26,480 good question alex 1729 00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:28,640 um i've got some recent data but i 1730 00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:30,880 haven't quite crunched it as as much as 1731 00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:32,880 i'd like to or had enough time but 1732 00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:34,319 we could make a couple points from what 1733 00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:36,960 we know so far first of all 1734 00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:40,480 people can have essentially you name the 1735 00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:41,119 religion 1736 00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,040 they can pretty much be there after 1737 00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:45,119 their near-death experience so 1738 00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:48,240 people that have near-death experiences 1739 00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:49,920 like the date is about half the time 1740 00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:51,200 they'll stay in their religious 1741 00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:52,640 affiliation about half 1742 00:58:57,750 --> 00:58:56,000 not um but we still have every 1743 00:58:59,349 --> 00:58:57,760 possible denomination that you can 1744 00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:59,359 conceive of uh 1745 00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:00,799 have people that have had near-death 1746 00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:02,960 experiences in it uh people 1747 00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:04,720 near-death experiences and so they do 1748 00:59:08,230 --> 00:59:06,960 believe that that religion seems to be 1749 00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:08,240 compatible i just 1750 00:59:11,910 --> 00:59:10,480 i mentioned the recent issue of the 1751 00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:11,920 journal of near-death studies i 1752 00:59:16,870 --> 00:59:13,520 co-authored an article 1753 00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:16,880 of 17 muslim near-death experiences 1754 00:59:20,549 --> 00:59:19,280 and they all remain muslim after their 1755 00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:20,559 near-death experience 1756 00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:22,480 and yet other people make radical 1757 00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,760 changes and 1758 00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:26,160 and sort of leave a religion that 1759 00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:26,799 they've been 1760 00:59:30,829 --> 00:59:28,400 or a belief system they've had all their 1761 00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:30,839 life and go somewhere else you see a 1762 00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:32,160 predisposition 1763 00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:34,240 for people after a near-death experience 1764 00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:36,880 to be spiritual but not religious 1765 00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:39,119 the one religion that changes 1766 00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:41,200 significant the most significantly by 1767 00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:42,000 far 1768 00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:43,680 after a near-death experience or the 1769 00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:45,359 group that are atheists at the time of 1770 00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,119 the near death experience 1771 00:59:50,309 --> 00:59:49,440 as you might imagine the great great 1772 00:59:53,109 --> 00:59:50,319 majority 1773 00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:53,119 put up mildly are no longer atheists 1774 00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:54,720 after their near-death experience so 1775 00:59:59,670 --> 00:59:56,880 that group has by far the greatest shift 1776 01:00:01,829 --> 00:59:59,680 in religious beliefs after an nde 1777 01:00:04,309 --> 01:00:01,839 you know related to that one of the ways 1778 01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:04,319 i really appreciate how you slice this 1779 01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:05,200 data 1780 01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:07,119 and again it gets back to this point of 1781 01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:09,440 the enormous potential that's there to 1782 01:00:15,190 --> 01:00:12,000 ask these next level questions 1783 01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:15,200 is you have data for people who 1784 01:00:20,390 --> 01:00:17,920 experienced god for lack of a better 1785 01:00:24,069 --> 01:00:20,400 term what they identified as god 1786 01:00:26,950 --> 01:00:24,079 and those who didn't experience god and 1787 01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:26,960 tell us what your findings are on that 1788 01:00:29,190 --> 01:00:27,359 yeah 1789 01:00:30,390 --> 01:00:29,200 i mean these are all typical near-death 1790 01:00:32,069 --> 01:00:30,400 experiences 1791 01:00:34,470 --> 01:00:32,079 um they have they can have all the 1792 01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:34,480 elements out of body experience tunnel 1793 01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:37,680 light landscapes you know beautiful 1794 01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:39,680 um life review i mean you name it 1795 01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:41,280 they're all elements it's just part of 1796 01:00:44,710 --> 01:00:42,079 it they encounter 1797 01:00:46,069 --> 01:00:44,720 god now the ones that encounter god tend 1798 01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:46,079 to be the more detailed near-death 1799 01:00:50,390 --> 01:00:47,280 experiences because 1800 01:00:51,430 --> 01:00:50,400 awareness or encounter of god typically 1801 01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:51,440 occurs in the 1802 01:00:55,030 --> 01:00:53,520 unearthly if you will heavenly realms 1803 01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:55,040 and so you have to 1804 01:00:59,109 --> 01:00:57,680 pretty much had a on average a deeper 1805 01:01:00,870 --> 01:00:59,119 near-death experience before you're 1806 01:01:01,510 --> 01:01:00,880 going to encounter those types of things 1807 01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:01,520 so 1808 01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:03,359 but that's about it it just seems to be 1809 01:01:06,950 --> 01:01:05,760 if you will a sort of a progressive a 1810 01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:06,960 more detailed 1811 01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:09,359 deeper near-death experience starts to 1812 01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:11,520 encounter god and sometimes some of the 1813 01:01:14,789 --> 01:01:11,920 other 1814 01:01:18,630 --> 01:01:14,799 deeper spiritual insights that 1815 01:01:22,150 --> 01:01:21,030 okay you know one other related point on 1816 01:01:25,829 --> 01:01:22,160 this 1817 01:01:28,150 --> 01:01:25,839 for me to parse out with people 1818 01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:28,160 what i'll hear a lot of people say is 1819 01:01:30,630 --> 01:01:29,440 hey if you're christian you're going to 1820 01:01:34,309 --> 01:01:30,640 see jesus 1821 01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:34,319 i'm like well i let's look at the data 1822 01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:36,000 that seems to happen a lot but it 1823 01:01:39,910 --> 01:01:37,680 doesn't happen all the time 1824 01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:39,920 don't it doesn't mean that there's some 1825 01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,440 mechanism in there 1826 01:01:44,710 --> 01:01:43,440 that works that way you know some of the 1827 01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:44,720 research that i think is 1828 01:01:48,470 --> 01:01:46,319 fascinating and i know i'd love to hear 1829 01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:48,480 your opinion is dr gregory shushan who 1830 01:01:51,109 --> 01:01:48,960 looks at 1831 01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:51,119 near-death experiences across time and 1832 01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:53,040 culture and what he found 1833 01:01:56,789 --> 01:01:55,440 is that in a lot of shamanic cultures as 1834 01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:56,799 soon as somebody came up with a 1835 01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:58,400 verifiable really good 1836 01:02:01,750 --> 01:02:00,240 near-death experience well they said oh 1837 01:02:03,750 --> 01:02:01,760 both we have to change our beliefs about 1838 01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:03,760 the afterlife because this guy has 1839 01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:05,839 done it and what i hear a lot of times 1840 01:02:09,829 --> 01:02:07,680 christians doing is the opposite 1841 01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:09,839 they're saying well let's see if we can 1842 01:02:13,589 --> 01:02:11,440 take our beliefs 1843 01:02:15,349 --> 01:02:13,599 and fight cherry-pick out some 1844 01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:15,359 near-death experiences that make it 1845 01:02:18,390 --> 01:02:16,079 sound like 1846 01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:18,400 we always we always had the answer it 1847 01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:19,760 seems to me we should be doing the other 1848 01:02:21,910 --> 01:02:20,000 way 1849 01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:21,920 around we should be saying what is the 1850 01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:24,880 near-death experience data telling us 1851 01:02:29,510 --> 01:02:27,760 what does that tell us about our beliefs 1852 01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:29,520 about the afterlife 1853 01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,680 yeah a couple good points you made there 1854 01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:33,440 first of all with regard to some people 1855 01:02:36,630 --> 01:02:34,559 that say 1856 01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:36,640 you'll see a religious figure based on 1857 01:02:39,910 --> 01:02:38,400 your prior 1858 01:02:41,589 --> 01:02:39,920 you know you interpret what you see 1859 01:02:43,190 --> 01:02:41,599 during a near-death experience based on 1860 01:02:45,029 --> 01:02:43,200 your prior religion belief 1861 01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:45,039 i think there's that that's a real 1862 01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:46,319 important point about near-death 1863 01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:48,559 experiences i mean obviously 1864 01:02:51,829 --> 01:02:50,400 during when you meet deceased relatives 1865 01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:51,839 it's going to be deceased relatives you 1866 01:02:55,190 --> 01:02:52,559 know 1867 01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:55,200 when you encounter a religious being 1868 01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:56,640 it's going to be a religious being you 1869 01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:58,240 know and not one that you've never heard 1870 01:03:01,029 --> 01:02:59,680 of in your life so the 1871 01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:01,039 what occurs during the near-death 1872 01:03:04,789 --> 01:03:02,799 experience the elements are 1873 01:03:07,109 --> 01:03:04,799 overwhelmingly consistently observed and 1874 01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:07,119 yet there's that personal aspect 1875 01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:10,079 of what your prior life is what you know 1876 01:03:12,470 --> 01:03:11,520 that manifests during a near-death 1877 01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:12,480 experience 1878 01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,799 with regard to people saying they see an 1879 01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:16,559 amorphous like an amorphous being of 1880 01:03:19,990 --> 01:03:16,880 light 1881 01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,000 interpreted as jesus oh my gosh go to 1882 01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,000 inderf.org go to that search 1883 01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:24,480 box in the top right put in jesus and 1884 01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:26,240 see for yourself how people describe 1885 01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:27,680 that you're not going to hear 1886 01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:30,319 you hear talk about an individual height 1887 01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:30,960 hair 1888 01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:33,920 eye color beard what they're wearing 1889 01:03:37,750 --> 01:03:34,799 color 1890 01:03:38,150 --> 01:03:37,760 details this isn't any kind of amorphous 1891 01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:38,160 being 1892 01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:40,559 they're describing very vividly and 1893 01:03:44,470 --> 01:03:41,440 extremely 1894 01:03:46,870 --> 01:03:44,480 well very discreet 1895 01:03:49,029 --> 01:03:46,880 specific individual that they're calling 1896 01:03:50,950 --> 01:03:49,039 jesus most of the time so 1897 01:03:52,950 --> 01:03:50,960 uh i have a little concern about people 1898 01:03:54,950 --> 01:03:52,960 that that say that that's totally 1899 01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:54,960 subject to interpretation i mean that 1900 01:03:59,349 --> 01:03:56,480 they're they're seeing 1901 01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:59,359 a and describing often very accurately 1902 01:04:02,069 --> 01:03:59,599 and 1903 01:04:03,349 --> 01:04:02,079 a very physical uh very specific 1904 01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:03,359 physical appearance 1905 01:04:06,390 --> 01:04:06,079 not not just an amorphous being of light 1906 01:04:09,029 --> 01:04:06,400 uh 1907 01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:09,039 so and then i'm not so where are you on 1908 01:04:12,390 --> 01:04:09,440 that 1909 01:04:14,069 --> 01:04:12,400 i don't match those two together it may 1910 01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:14,079 be in the way that you do 1911 01:04:18,710 --> 01:04:16,720 i understand that that is their 1912 01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:18,720 experience and i'm totally down with 1913 01:04:21,750 --> 01:04:19,760 that 1914 01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:21,760 there is uh i don't but i don't 1915 01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:22,960 understand that realm 1916 01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:26,880 i don't know how memories 1917 01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,079 images are formed how they're maintained 1918 01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:32,880 and that's why i pull back to the data 1919 01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:34,160 level lens 1920 01:04:38,789 --> 01:04:36,480 before i start doing that but when i 1921 01:04:41,270 --> 01:04:38,799 look at the specific data points 1922 01:04:41,910 --> 01:04:41,280 they're all over the map they're all 1923 01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:41,920 over the map 1924 01:04:45,910 --> 01:04:44,960 in so many different ways and then at 1925 01:04:47,430 --> 01:04:45,920 least still you know 1926 01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:47,440 because i've done a lot of research in 1927 01:04:50,309 --> 01:04:49,039 that you want to tie that to the 1928 01:04:52,230 --> 01:04:50,319 historical jesus 1929 01:04:54,549 --> 01:04:52,240 you want to tie that to what we 1930 01:04:56,470 --> 01:04:54,559 understand about history 1931 01:04:58,549 --> 01:04:56,480 i don't look for any i don't use 1932 01:05:02,870 --> 01:04:58,559 near-death experience 1933 01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:02,880 accounts as some kind of 1934 01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:06,160 insight into interpreting josephus 1935 01:05:10,150 --> 01:05:09,200 or the gospels or anything like that i i 1936 01:05:14,069 --> 01:05:10,160 don't think there's a 1937 01:05:14,549 --> 01:05:14,079 because i think we're in two completely 1938 01:05:16,870 --> 01:05:14,559 different 1939 01:05:18,309 --> 01:05:16,880 realms i mean maybe they are real maybe 1940 01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:18,319 they are different realms maybe they 1941 01:05:20,230 --> 01:05:18,720 aren't 1942 01:05:23,109 --> 01:05:20,240 but i don't think we have that 1943 01:05:24,710 --> 01:05:23,119 understanding of what is the difference 1944 01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:24,720 between 1945 01:05:30,549 --> 01:05:28,160 our truth here and the truth there 1946 01:05:32,069 --> 01:05:30,559 and which is superior and how we would 1947 01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:32,079 even begin to understand that 1948 01:05:35,430 --> 01:05:33,599 i kind of rambled on there do you get 1949 01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:35,440 what i'm saying yeah i do 1950 01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:38,240 um the you know there first of all i 1951 01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:40,160 agree with you i don't think that 1952 01:05:44,069 --> 01:05:41,760 you can really you look at jesus and 1953 01:05:48,829 --> 01:05:44,079 near-death experiences 1954 01:05:52,069 --> 01:05:48,839 jesus actually rarely talks about 1955 01:05:53,029 --> 01:05:52,079 events in the bible or of historical 1956 01:05:55,589 --> 01:05:53,039 things 1957 01:05:57,510 --> 01:05:55,599 uh virtually every time he's there for 1958 01:05:59,510 --> 01:05:57,520 the near-death experience or they feel 1959 01:06:01,349 --> 01:05:59,520 love overwhelming compassion 1960 01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,359 i mean words just seem to fall all over 1961 01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:03,119 the near death experience describing how 1962 01:06:07,990 --> 01:06:05,359 amazing it is to encounter jesus 1963 01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:08,000 but jesus essentially never that i can 1964 01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:08,960 recall 1965 01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:11,520 uh is an advocate for christianity as 1966 01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:13,200 opposed to other religions or certainly 1967 01:06:17,349 --> 01:06:14,559 an opposition of religion 1968 01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:17,359 so i think you've really got the jesus 1969 01:06:20,630 --> 01:06:18,960 peers near-death experiences and the 1970 01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:20,640 jesus in the bible 1971 01:06:24,230 --> 01:06:22,640 and i think there's there's a couple 1972 01:06:25,750 --> 01:06:24,240 different flavors there's a couple 1973 01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:25,760 different things that i never 1974 01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:27,280 i mean in the bible for example you'd 1975 01:06:29,589 --> 01:06:29,200 say you know it's replete with words 1976 01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:29,599 like 1977 01:06:33,670 --> 01:06:32,240 thou art or a third of the bible or 1978 01:06:35,109 --> 01:06:33,680 third of the time jesus talks in the 1979 01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:35,119 bible is parables 1980 01:06:39,029 --> 01:06:36,640 and you essentially never hear that with 1981 01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:39,039 near death experience accounts so 1982 01:06:43,190 --> 01:06:41,280 that's that's the data that i've seen 1983 01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:43,200 it's it's intriguing but 1984 01:06:47,349 --> 01:06:45,920 uh there seems to be um that's just not 1985 01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:47,359 what jesus and your death experience 1986 01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:48,960 seems to spend a lot of time addressing 1987 01:06:53,430 --> 01:06:50,160 us 1988 01:06:54,549 --> 01:06:53,440 hammer on there one is christ 1989 01:06:56,630 --> 01:06:54,559 consciousness 1990 01:06:57,589 --> 01:06:56,640 and i don't say it to try and be tricky 1991 01:07:00,150 --> 01:06:57,599 i just say 1992 01:07:01,829 --> 01:07:00,160 clearly what the data is telling us is 1993 01:07:02,789 --> 01:07:01,839 that there is this other realm of 1994 01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:02,799 consciousness 1995 01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:04,799 and again juxtapose that with science 1996 01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:05,920 that says there isn't even any 1997 01:07:09,910 --> 01:07:06,720 consciousness 1998 01:07:12,390 --> 01:07:09,920 absurd idea 1999 01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:12,400 so what the near-death experience along 2000 01:07:17,430 --> 01:07:15,119 with a lot of other good science says is 2001 01:07:18,789 --> 01:07:17,440 hey there's not only a conscious 2002 01:07:20,549 --> 01:07:18,799 experience here 2003 01:07:22,870 --> 01:07:20,559 but there's these extended realms where 2004 01:07:25,349 --> 01:07:22,880 consciousness seems to operate 2005 01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:25,359 under different principles so i just 2006 01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:26,960 when somebody says they encountered 2007 01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:28,799 jesus in their dear death experience i 2008 01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:29,280 go 2009 01:07:33,029 --> 01:07:31,200 i'm totally down with christ's 2010 01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:33,039 consciousness and sometimes people 2011 01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:34,319 christians you never what 2012 01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:36,400 it's not christ consciousness it's jesus 2013 01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:37,760 and it's like 2014 01:07:42,309 --> 01:07:39,839 definitionally i don't know what you 2015 01:07:43,990 --> 01:07:42,319 mean you're in this extended realm which 2016 01:07:46,309 --> 01:07:44,000 we don't understand what that extended 2017 01:07:48,390 --> 01:07:46,319 realm is but we're acknowledging that it 2018 01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:48,400 seems to have this reality and you're 2019 01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,240 encountering this 2020 01:07:54,230 --> 01:07:52,799 spirit being which we don't understand 2021 01:07:56,870 --> 01:07:54,240 if we could try and connect it 2022 01:07:58,630 --> 01:07:56,880 historically but that has its problems 2023 01:07:59,910 --> 01:07:58,640 why are you uncomfortable with the term 2024 01:08:01,670 --> 01:07:59,920 christ consciousness is 2025 01:08:04,230 --> 01:08:01,680 one of my first questions but then my 2026 01:08:06,150 --> 01:08:04,240 second question is 2027 01:08:08,309 --> 01:08:06,160 how are you going to fit that with all 2028 01:08:11,349 --> 01:08:08,319 these other kind of you know the tulpa 2029 01:08:12,950 --> 01:08:11,359 gregoria kind of uh co-creators of 2030 01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:12,960 reality kind of stuff 2031 01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:15,440 that we see pop up in other traditions 2032 01:08:18,229 --> 01:08:16,319 if you 2033 01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,239 it does seem that other wisdom 2034 01:08:23,430 --> 01:08:20,400 traditions are telling us that if we 2035 01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:23,440 collectively think about 2036 01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:26,480 you know jesus then jesus is real if we 2037 01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:28,319 collectively think about 2038 01:08:33,349 --> 01:08:31,199 satan then even if you know i had uh 2039 01:08:36,870 --> 01:08:33,359 richard smoley on the other day 2040 01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:36,880 uh you know oxford uh theologian and 2041 01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:37,600 researcher 2042 01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:38,880 you know he'll tell you if you go 2043 01:08:45,030 --> 01:08:41,440 looking for satan 2044 01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:45,040 in the pre-torah kind of it satan isn't 2045 01:08:48,630 --> 01:08:45,839 there 2046 01:08:49,510 --> 01:08:48,640 satan pops up after zoryaster you know 2047 01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:49,520 so 2048 01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:52,080 but satan is very real now because our 2049 01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:53,199 collective consciousness 2050 01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:55,199 i mean one way to look at it is that we 2051 01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:57,600 are collectively 2052 01:09:02,070 --> 01:09:00,640 and i see i don't know if that's true i 2053 01:09:04,870 --> 01:09:02,080 just say 2054 01:09:07,430 --> 01:09:04,880 that would give me pause to start 2055 01:09:09,910 --> 01:09:07,440 drawing connections between 2056 01:09:10,630 --> 01:09:09,920 this christ consciousness which again i 2057 01:09:13,110 --> 01:09:10,640 think is 2058 01:09:14,550 --> 01:09:13,120 the data says is extremely profound and 2059 01:09:17,550 --> 01:09:14,560 extremely important 2060 01:09:19,110 --> 01:09:17,560 and what someone would understand 2061 01:09:21,189 --> 01:09:19,120 historically so 2062 01:09:23,189 --> 01:09:21,199 that's one of the things that i struggle 2063 01:09:24,789 --> 01:09:23,199 with trying to 2064 01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:24,799 clear up and i don't know if you have 2065 01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:27,600 anything else to add about that or not 2066 01:09:32,470 --> 01:09:30,239 sure do uh i think your concept of 2067 01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:32,480 christ consciousness as describing what 2068 01:09:37,669 --> 01:09:34,560 is occurring in near-death experience 2069 01:09:38,870 --> 01:09:37,679 is closer to truth than trying to 2070 01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:38,880 connect that to 2071 01:09:43,189 --> 01:09:41,839 what is his the beliefs about historical 2072 01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:43,199 jesus so 2073 01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:46,400 um i so i i would say that's going down 2074 01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:48,560 the right way of thinking 2075 01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:51,359 you've answered so many really i think 2076 01:09:56,229 --> 01:09:52,960 important questions 2077 01:09:57,430 --> 01:09:56,239 about this database and what i hope 2078 01:10:00,470 --> 01:09:57,440 people pull out of it 2079 01:10:00,870 --> 01:10:00,480 is the potential for kind of having 2080 01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:00,880 their 2081 01:10:09,830 --> 01:10:07,679 level in this realm of 2082 01:10:10,709 --> 01:10:09,840 what this stuff is really all about 2083 01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:10,719 because 2084 01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:12,960 that's what you attest to and that's 2085 01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:14,320 what i attest to 2086 01:10:17,510 --> 01:10:16,159 this research has changed me and i am 2087 01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:17,520 kind of spiritually dense 2088 01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:19,280 i've never had an nde i don't know when 2089 01:10:24,630 --> 01:10:20,880 anyone had an nde 2090 01:10:27,430 --> 01:10:24,640 but you know this book is i particularly 2091 01:10:28,790 --> 01:10:27,440 point people towards this book god in 2092 01:10:31,669 --> 01:10:28,800 the afterlife 2093 01:10:33,270 --> 01:10:31,679 the groundbreaking new evidence for god 2094 01:10:35,830 --> 01:10:33,280 and near-death experience 2095 01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:35,840 and if you can in a couple minutes that 2096 01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,880 we have left 2097 01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:39,120 just sum up what people are going to 2098 01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:40,480 find there 2099 01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:43,040 particularly about this god thing which 2100 01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:46,159 can be kind of tricky for people 2101 01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:48,800 right uh well as i've said uh you know 2102 01:10:51,510 --> 01:10:49,199 the 2103 01:10:52,790 --> 01:10:51,520 we have way over 200 near-death 2104 01:10:54,070 --> 01:10:52,800 experiences 2105 01:10:56,390 --> 01:10:54,080 in which they were aware of or 2106 01:10:57,750 --> 01:10:56,400 encountered god so this is a huge study 2107 01:11:00,390 --> 01:10:57,760 unlike anything that's ever been 2108 01:11:03,990 --> 01:11:00,400 published before and i think the message 2109 01:11:05,270 --> 01:11:04,000 is extremely important and positive for 2110 01:11:07,830 --> 01:11:05,280 all of humanity 2111 01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:07,840 i mean here's god described 2112 01:11:10,870 --> 01:11:10,000 overwhelmingly consistently as being a 2113 01:11:13,510 --> 01:11:10,880 being of 2114 01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:13,520 great love compassion accepting people 2115 01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:15,520 for who they are are the all that they 2116 01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:15,840 are 2117 01:11:21,430 --> 01:11:18,960 never 2118 01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:21,440 judgmental that i can see which 2119 01:11:23,830 --> 01:11:23,440 interestingly is a surprise to a lot of 2120 01:11:26,709 --> 01:11:23,840 people 2121 01:11:29,189 --> 01:11:26,719 encounter aware of god uh and just that 2122 01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:29,199 strong and often people say they feel 2123 01:11:33,430 --> 01:11:32,080 that connection even unity with god uh 2124 01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:33,440 which interesting it would be 2125 01:11:37,430 --> 01:11:35,679 conceptually an overwhelming expression 2126 01:11:39,350 --> 01:11:37,440 of god's love i think the 2127 01:11:41,590 --> 01:11:39,360 deepest expression of love that you can 2128 01:11:42,390 --> 01:11:41,600 find is a unity and here over and over 2129 01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:42,400 people 2130 01:11:45,430 --> 01:11:44,640 feel that with god which is uh 2131 01:11:48,310 --> 01:11:45,440 remarkable 2132 01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:48,320 so i think that's the the message of god 2133 01:11:52,310 --> 01:11:49,199 is 2134 01:11:54,229 --> 01:11:52,320 i think dovetails very closely to an 2135 01:11:55,990 --> 01:11:54,239 important point you were making earlier 2136 01:11:57,750 --> 01:11:56,000 and one of the first survey questions i 2137 01:11:58,950 --> 01:11:57,760 ever asked i asked is the message of 2138 01:12:02,390 --> 01:11:58,960 near-death experience 2139 01:12:04,149 --> 01:12:02,400 for the experiencer only or for us all 2140 01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:04,159 and the overwhelming response from the 2141 01:12:08,229 --> 01:12:05,520 near-death experiencers 2142 01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:08,239 was that the messages are for all of us 2143 01:12:13,030 --> 01:12:10,560 so in studying near-death experiences 2144 01:12:14,550 --> 01:12:13,040 uh it sounds like you're going down the 2145 01:12:16,229 --> 01:12:14,560 same line of thinking alex 2146 01:12:18,149 --> 01:12:16,239 you only want to think about it not as 2147 01:12:19,910 --> 01:12:18,159 somebody else's experience what happened 2148 01:12:22,630 --> 01:12:19,920 to them is history you know 2149 01:12:24,550 --> 01:12:22,640 years to a few decades ago near death 2150 01:12:25,669 --> 01:12:24,560 experiences speak to each one of us 2151 01:12:28,229 --> 01:12:25,679 individually 2152 01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:28,239 each one can read near-death experiences 2153 01:12:32,550 --> 01:12:29,520 be informed 2154 01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:32,560 it's both informative and inspirational 2155 01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:35,280 i think very powerful measures of each 2156 01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:37,280 so it really can be life-changing it 2157 01:12:41,430 --> 01:12:38,480 really can 2158 01:12:42,470 --> 01:12:41,440 serve as an understanding of ourselves 2159 01:12:44,790 --> 01:12:42,480 individually 2160 01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:44,800 and result in those tremendously 2161 01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:46,480 positive changes and growth 2162 01:12:49,990 --> 01:12:48,000 the message of near-death experience 2163 01:12:52,709 --> 01:12:50,000 alex i think is perhaps the most 2164 01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:52,719 profoundly positive message that is 2165 01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:54,000 conceivably 2166 01:12:57,750 --> 01:12:56,239 uh available to earth and people in it 2167 01:12:59,510 --> 01:12:57,760 today 2168 01:13:01,030 --> 01:12:59,520 awesome i do want to pick up on one 2169 01:13:02,709 --> 01:13:01,040 point that you made because 2170 01:13:05,270 --> 01:13:02,719 when we were talking earlier about 2171 01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:05,280 things that resonate 2172 01:13:11,830 --> 01:13:09,120 i think the idea of compassion resonates 2173 01:13:12,470 --> 01:13:11,840 but what also resonates is judgment 2174 01:13:15,990 --> 01:13:12,480 people 2175 01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:16,000 understand judgment and i think the 2176 01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:16,960 message 2177 01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:19,840 from near-death experience research when 2178 01:13:24,950 --> 01:13:21,360 i share it with people 2179 01:13:25,750 --> 01:13:24,960 that really kind of both frightens 2180 01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:25,760 people 2181 01:13:29,510 --> 01:13:28,239 but also kind of propels them forward in 2182 01:13:31,910 --> 01:13:29,520 a way that says 2183 01:13:33,430 --> 01:13:31,920 hey that sounds like truth that doesn't 2184 01:13:36,149 --> 01:13:33,440 sound like 2185 01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:36,159 is about the judgment that does come 2186 01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:38,000 with the near-death experience because 2187 01:13:42,310 --> 01:13:40,000 it really just is a subtle twist 2188 01:13:44,310 --> 01:13:42,320 that kind of flips it on its head that 2189 01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:44,320 makes us understand 2190 01:13:47,669 --> 01:13:46,960 why why we have felt judgment our our 2191 01:13:50,709 --> 01:13:47,679 whole life 2192 01:13:53,590 --> 01:13:50,719 who's the judger who's the one judging 2193 01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:53,600 yeah and yeah alex as as i'm sure you 2194 01:13:56,630 --> 01:13:54,320 know 2195 01:13:58,229 --> 01:13:56,640 judgment being judged externally in 2196 01:14:01,270 --> 01:13:58,239 near-death experiences by 2197 01:14:04,630 --> 01:14:01,280 other spiritual beings nearby 2198 01:14:05,110 --> 01:14:04,640 is really rare and that's an over and 2199 01:14:08,149 --> 01:14:05,120 over 2200 01:14:09,830 --> 01:14:08,159 common extremely ingrained theme of 2201 01:14:11,750 --> 01:14:09,840 near-death experiences is that they 2202 01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:11,760 don't feel judged they're not judged 2203 01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:13,679 and that's often again very surprising 2204 01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,760 to near-death experiencers who well have 2205 01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:17,280 done some things that they're not proud 2206 01:14:20,870 --> 01:14:18,800 of in their life and so 2207 01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:20,880 they find that enormously reassuring in 2208 01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:22,400 a life review where they're seeing their 2209 01:14:25,669 --> 01:14:23,520 prior life 2210 01:14:26,790 --> 01:14:25,679 there's often other beings around there 2211 01:14:28,550 --> 01:14:26,800 yet once again 2212 01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:28,560 they're not being judged by that other 2213 01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:30,640 being it's that individual 2214 01:14:34,870 --> 01:14:33,040 seeing their life understanding how they 2215 01:14:36,950 --> 01:14:34,880 interact with other people and at times 2216 01:14:38,470 --> 01:14:36,960 even feeling what the other person felt 2217 01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:38,480 it's the near-death experiencer that 2218 01:14:42,149 --> 01:14:40,000 forms the judgment and 2219 01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:42,159 nobody else not from any other external 2220 01:14:48,470 --> 01:14:44,640 force that can be quite significant 2221 01:14:51,350 --> 01:14:48,480 that feeling of now being in a position 2222 01:14:52,790 --> 01:14:51,360 of judging your soul of you being the 2223 01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:52,800 one who weighs your soul 2224 01:14:58,709 --> 01:14:56,239 because my gut instinct is that 2225 01:14:59,990 --> 01:14:58,719 we all have felt that throughout our 2226 01:15:01,350 --> 01:15:00,000 life you know i always say 2227 01:15:02,709 --> 01:15:01,360 when i was a kid and i walked down to 2228 01:15:03,590 --> 01:15:02,719 the corner store and was wondering 2229 01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:03,600 whether or not 2230 01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:05,280 i could sneak that piece of candy that i 2231 01:15:09,430 --> 01:15:07,120 couldn't afford into my pocket 2232 01:15:10,229 --> 01:15:09,440 i felt like there was going to be some 2233 01:15:12,630 --> 01:15:10,239 judgment 2234 01:15:13,350 --> 01:15:12,640 and now when i hear from the dear to the 2235 01:15:15,510 --> 01:15:13,360 experiences 2236 01:15:17,510 --> 01:15:15,520 you were right there was judgment but 2237 01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:17,520 it's okay it's just you doing the best 2238 01:15:20,870 --> 01:15:18,239 you can 2239 01:15:21,910 --> 01:15:20,880 but then having to face and understand 2240 01:15:24,070 --> 01:15:21,920 that 2241 01:15:25,990 --> 01:15:24,080 all your thoughts all your actions are 2242 01:15:27,990 --> 01:15:26,000 important they are meaningful 2243 01:15:29,669 --> 01:15:28,000 and you will judge those but you'll be 2244 01:15:32,310 --> 01:15:29,679 supported in doing so 2245 01:15:33,590 --> 01:15:32,320 that resonates is true and it it more 2246 01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:33,600 than somebody saying 2247 01:15:38,790 --> 01:15:36,640 oh it's just all perfect yeah no i 2248 01:15:40,470 --> 01:15:38,800 and you're absolutely right alex this 2249 01:15:42,790 --> 01:15:40,480 lack of external judgment 2250 01:15:43,990 --> 01:15:42,800 uh especially negative judgment is 2251 01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:44,000 simply one of the 2252 01:15:48,229 --> 01:15:46,560 very powerful manifestations of love and 2253 01:15:50,790 --> 01:15:48,239 near-death experience 2254 01:15:52,229 --> 01:15:50,800 uh again that that's the over and over 2255 01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:52,239 you hear about that 2256 01:15:55,669 --> 01:15:54,239 we've actually asked survey questions 2257 01:15:57,270 --> 01:15:55,679 about their awareness of love and 2258 01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:57,280 near-death experience and 2259 01:16:01,270 --> 01:15:59,520 as i recall it's uh well over half of 2260 01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:01,280 near-death experiencers did 2261 01:16:05,910 --> 01:16:03,840 come away with some concept like that 2262 01:16:07,430 --> 01:16:05,920 and it's that uh you know that that love 2263 01:16:08,870 --> 01:16:07,440 i think it's all that package of 2264 01:16:11,350 --> 01:16:08,880 non-judgment 2265 01:16:12,950 --> 01:16:11,360 um no judgment external i think that 2266 01:16:14,229 --> 01:16:12,960 probably helps near-death experiences 2267 01:16:16,149 --> 01:16:14,239 let go of fear 2268 01:16:18,149 --> 01:16:16,159 in living their earthly life they're 2269 01:16:20,229 --> 01:16:18,159 less concerned about that 2270 01:16:21,189 --> 01:16:20,239 external negative judgment that that 2271 01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:21,199 we've all been 2272 01:16:24,870 --> 01:16:23,040 uh had to put up with during times in 2273 01:16:26,229 --> 01:16:24,880 our lives so uh yeah 2274 01:16:27,990 --> 01:16:26,239 i think you made a good point there on 2275 01:16:29,910 --> 01:16:28,000 that alex 2276 01:16:31,510 --> 01:16:29,920 jeff what's going on we've said a little 2277 01:16:32,470 --> 01:16:31,520 bit you sit there with a bunch of new 2278 01:16:34,709 --> 01:16:32,480 data 2279 01:16:36,229 --> 01:16:34,719 how will that work its way out into the 2280 01:16:40,390 --> 01:16:36,239 world and what's going on at 2281 01:16:42,950 --> 01:16:40,400 nderf yeah i'm glad you brought that up 2282 01:16:43,830 --> 01:16:42,960 i'm just now sort of looking at some of 2283 01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:43,840 the 2284 01:16:48,630 --> 01:16:47,040 latest data that we have in terms of 2285 01:16:50,470 --> 01:16:48,640 evidence for the reality of near-death 2286 01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:50,480 experience and its consistent message of 2287 01:16:53,830 --> 01:16:51,600 an afterlife 2288 01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:53,840 and some of the deeper spiritual 2289 01:16:56,550 --> 01:16:55,760 messages and near-death experience and 2290 01:16:59,110 --> 01:16:56,560 it is 2291 01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:59,120 i'm not ready to to say a lot about it 2292 01:17:03,669 --> 01:17:01,199 yet but but we are definitely i think 2293 01:17:06,630 --> 01:17:03,679 moving forward in a very positive way 2294 01:17:07,510 --> 01:17:06,640 and this again just a hint of what lies 2295 01:17:09,510 --> 01:17:07,520 ahead 2296 01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:09,520 uh over and over i said to joni here 2297 01:17:13,030 --> 01:17:11,120 this seems to be perhaps the most 2298 01:17:14,550 --> 01:17:13,040 powerfully positive message 2299 01:17:16,550 --> 01:17:14,560 that we could possibly share with the 2300 01:17:17,270 --> 01:17:16,560 earth what we're seeing so stay tuned on 2301 01:17:23,830 --> 01:17:17,280 that 2302 01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:23,840 working 2303 01:17:28,149 --> 01:17:26,400 on consolidating the data so that it's 2304 01:17:29,430 --> 01:17:28,159 more easily accessible and can be 2305 01:17:31,750 --> 01:17:29,440 accessed 2306 01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:31,760 by using keywords better than ever 2307 01:17:35,189 --> 01:17:32,640 before 2308 01:17:36,229 --> 01:17:35,199 we have the indurf.org website but we 2309 01:17:38,550 --> 01:17:36,239 also have 2310 01:17:40,310 --> 01:17:38,560 two other websites devoted to one to 2311 01:17:41,110 --> 01:17:40,320 after death communication and the other 2312 01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:41,120 to 2313 01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:43,199 out of body experience and other related 2314 01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:44,320 spiritual 2315 01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:46,480 types of things so we're getting all 2316 01:17:50,390 --> 01:17:48,320 that data together so that we can 2317 01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:50,400 analyze it scientifically 2318 01:17:54,229 --> 01:17:52,400 and to the greatest extent possible 2319 01:17:55,910 --> 01:17:54,239 hopefully get to the point we're working 2320 01:17:56,630 --> 01:17:55,920 some volunteers to share it with the 2321 01:17:58,310 --> 01:17:56,640 world 2322 01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:58,320 so people can do just like what you did 2323 01:18:03,669 --> 01:18:00,880 alex look up those key words on indirf 2324 01:18:05,430 --> 01:18:03,679 you know at jesus god and and be able to 2325 01:18:07,990 --> 01:18:05,440 more fine-tune it you can cross 2326 01:18:09,830 --> 01:18:08,000 god with light you can cross uh you know 2327 01:18:13,189 --> 01:18:09,840 how often do you cross 2328 01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:13,199 uh love with pick up 2329 01:18:16,709 --> 01:18:16,080 you know with uh you know under with 2330 01:18:18,470 --> 01:18:16,719 with what 2331 01:18:19,830 --> 01:18:18,480 life review so you're going to be able 2332 01:18:21,830 --> 01:18:19,840 to cross 2333 01:18:23,590 --> 01:18:21,840 concepts in a near-death experience and 2334 01:18:24,709 --> 01:18:23,600 get right to the near-death experiences 2335 01:18:26,310 --> 01:18:24,719 describing that 2336 01:18:27,830 --> 01:18:26,320 more accurately than ever possible 2337 01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:27,840 before that's still a work in progress 2338 01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:29,040 but i think we're going to have some 2339 01:18:31,270 --> 01:18:29,840 good 2340 01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:31,280 i think google is definitely helping you 2341 01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:32,719 out with that and again the thing you 2342 01:18:36,070 --> 01:18:33,280 know i 2343 01:18:38,070 --> 01:18:36,080 kind of maybe travel in different 2344 01:18:42,310 --> 01:18:38,080 circles but what i always 2345 01:18:46,229 --> 01:18:42,320 go go go with the outside stuff go e.t 2346 01:18:49,030 --> 01:18:46,239 go baphomet go nd-e-r-f 2347 01:18:49,350 --> 01:18:49,040 n-d-e-r-f baphomet you think baffamet is 2348 01:19:30,229 --> 01:18:49,360 a 2349 01:19:32,310 --> 01:19:30,239 is 2350 01:19:33,910 --> 01:19:32,320 absolutely alex there's just such a 2351 01:19:35,669 --> 01:19:33,920 wealth of different concepts and 2352 01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:35,679 near-death experiences 2353 01:19:40,310 --> 01:19:38,480 that people in one hour and one day are 2354 01:19:41,669 --> 01:19:40,320 going to say wow i'm especially 2355 01:19:43,830 --> 01:19:41,679 interested in 2356 01:19:45,830 --> 01:19:43,840 how colors look different in these 2357 01:19:47,590 --> 01:19:45,840 heavenly realms as compared to earth 2358 01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:47,600 what about this unearthly music that 2359 01:19:50,070 --> 01:19:49,199 i've heard about how can we find some 2360 01:19:52,070 --> 01:19:50,080 accounts and 2361 01:19:53,590 --> 01:19:52,080 go to the original source i mean we're 2362 01:19:55,830 --> 01:19:53,600 basically exactly as you said 2363 01:19:57,990 --> 01:19:55,840 empowering people to take the journey i 2364 01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:58,000 did over two decades ago 2365 01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:59,679 where you go to that original source of 2366 01:20:03,830 --> 01:20:01,440 data and start to learn 2367 01:20:05,590 --> 01:20:03,840 from those concepts the questions that 2368 01:20:07,910 --> 01:20:05,600 are important to each individual and 2369 01:20:09,990 --> 01:20:07,920 that's exciting 2370 01:20:11,830 --> 01:20:10,000 it is exciting jeff you're exciting 2371 01:20:13,350 --> 01:20:11,840 you're an exciting guy you and jody are 2372 01:20:15,669 --> 01:20:13,360 doing such amazing work 2373 01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:15,679 and i so appreciate you uh coming back 2374 01:20:21,270 --> 01:20:18,239 on and talk to people and hopefully we 2375 01:20:22,870 --> 01:20:21,280 helped explore more of the science about 2376 01:20:24,870 --> 01:20:22,880 this and where it might be headed thanks 2377 01:20:28,229 --> 01:20:24,880 again so much for joining me 2378 01:20:29,669 --> 01:20:28,239 always a pleasure thanks again to dr 2379 01:20:30,470 --> 01:20:29,679 jeff long for joining me today on 2380 01:20:32,149 --> 01:20:30,480 skeptico 2381 01:20:33,669 --> 01:20:32,159 the one question i t up from this 2382 01:20:36,470 --> 01:20:33,679 interview is 2383 01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:36,480 what do you find most meaningful about 2384 01:20:42,310 --> 01:20:36,960 the 2385 01:20:43,750 --> 01:20:42,320 has collected i'll give you a couple 2386 01:20:45,510 --> 01:20:43,760 thoughts during this interview but i'd 2387 01:20:47,189 --> 01:20:45,520 love to hear what you think 2388 01:20:49,910 --> 01:20:47,199 let me know reach out to me in any way 2389 01:20:50,550 --> 01:20:49,920 you can skeptical form is my preferred 2390 01:20:53,910 --> 01:20:50,560 way 2391 01:20:56,070 --> 01:20:53,920 but find me however you do 2392 01:20:57,110 --> 01:20:56,080 lots of stuff coming up stay with me for 2393 01:20:59,350 --> 01:20:57,120 all of that 2394 01:21:01,120 --> 01:20:59,360 until next time take care and bye for